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Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

arstechnica.com

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Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#361

Post by Vecr »

yaomtc wrote: post #353

Periodic re-testing to keep your license should become mandatory. 50% of federal transportation funding going to transit and related projects should become mandatory. Getting as many cars off the road as possible in the coming years should become mandatory. Reduced speed limits in cities across the country should become mandatory. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7126a1.htm If pedestrian detection "doesn't wo…

No way, you and what dictator is getting this passed? No one would get this passed, even the most corrupt possible senate and lobbyists.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#362

Post by anakaine »

hnick wrote: post #115
ics wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote up a long comment that got scrapped by my focus filter but I feel the need to voice strong agreement here. I have a recent Mazda which in almost all ways is my perfect car except for the newfangled safety features all new cars seem to have. Lane correction and emergency braking, even set to the lowest sensitivity levels, are bad to outright dangerous in city (and some country) driving. In NYC it's common to h…

My new car has lane keep assist and AEB and I haven't had these issues. From what I hear it's very much to do with a maker's implementation (mine is Hyundai, who for various reasons seems to have a bad reputation in North America but a good one in Australia). For the lane keep assist I feel a nudge but it's extremely easy to overcome just through a normal grip on the wheel - if I don't budge it won't move. It's been…

Driving a Hyundai hire in Sydney with lane keep and aeb was the thing that eventually convinced me to upgrade the 4x4 to something with these features. Driving a hire Subaru with the same features around Sydney was what convinced me to drive a few more and observe who had good implementations, and who poor.

Recently upgraded to a Chinese ute. I've about the first 1000km driven now, and whilst it's occasionally made some mistakes, if my hands are on the wheel it's easy enough to just stay the course and it let's me do as I wish. I can also turn all the setting to off at the touch of a button and make that the default too. I quite enjoy having these features because they have been implemented well.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#363

Post by anakaine »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #350
ics wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From what I hear it's very much to do with a maker's implementation Right, if I had to condense my issues into something more constructive it is just that: if regulators want to pursue a mandate for these systems, they should also work on establishing testing criteria and specifications that cover the many different conditions drivers face and reduces variation between manufacturers as possible. Not an easy task. T…

Automaker implementation and the chosen hardware to do the implementation on. Meaning that, for example I drive a Honda which has a camera and a radar. The camera is for lane assist from what I gathered and the radar for ACC and AEB. If I accelerate into traffic and get close to a car while accelerating, it will start flashing a warning light and if I still don't stop accelerating or braking, it will intervene, but i…

Alternatively, it should have a wider field of view and if nothing is obviously very wrong let the driver move the wheel around without intervention.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#364

Post by Vecr »

drewmol wrote: post #98

An eye tracking feature would be nice if incorporated into the AEB where it could be set to only activate if I’m not looking at the road in front of me. This plus have a disabling trigger on the steering wheel and auto disabled if you punch the gas from a stop. Uhhg… just imagine someone pointing a gun at you from the front of your car to carjack you, you duck while stepping on the gas - only for your tires to squeal…

From random evasive/tactical driving videos I've seen, you also need to be able to ram attackers, as well as the front wheel of a blocking car with your frame rail. This system would prevent you from using your car as a weapon in lawful self defense.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#365

Post by lloeki »

hnick wrote: post #115
ics wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote up a long comment that got scrapped by my focus filter but I feel the need to voice strong agreement here. I have a recent Mazda which in almost all ways is my perfect car except for the newfangled safety features all new cars seem to have. Lane correction and emergency braking, even set to the lowest sensitivity levels, are bad to outright dangerous in city (and some country) driving. In NYC it's common to h…

My new car has lane keep assist and AEB and I haven't had these issues. From what I hear it's very much to do with a maker's implementation (mine is Hyundai, who for various reasons seems to have a bad reputation in North America but a good one in Australia). For the lane keep assist I feel a nudge but it's extremely easy to overcome just through a normal grip on the wheel - if I don't budge it won't move. It's been…

I have a Mazda too, I can confirm GP statement regarding lane assist... in many areas but not all:

- when it works it works so well the car basically drives itself esp. when you throw cruise control into the mix (this includes auto coasting + breaking)

- when it doesn't it's bouncing across the lane + applies too much resistance when attempting e.g overtaking

I did not have any issue with emergency braking (never triggered, any situation where it would have triggered got handled by the driver first), but I did have a few (light) phantom braking events in cruise control.

Not related to lane assist control (uses a separate mechanism) but I did have issues with blind spot alert, it was randomly alerting regularly when no car was present. Mazda identified the cause as winter tyres throwing the sensors off. A software update is supposed to fix that but we disabled the feature so it'll be done on the next scheduled maintenance.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#366

Post by pcthrowaway »

jacquesm wrote: post #60
opwieurposiu wrote: post #52

The quality of these systems varies wildly IME. If your car has a good one, they are quite useful. If your car has a glitchy one they are dangerous. How do we keep the glitchy ones off the road? Extended return policy? Make the unit swappable/replaceable?

Set some standards and 100% transparency on cases where they fail, mandatory disclosure of every case where they phantom brake and what the cause and end result was. Unlike seatbelts or airbags where there is very little downside these can cause perfectly safe situations to turn into nasty accidents.

They should be equipped with cameras at both the front and rear and ship off a recording of what was occurring on both cameras in the seconds leading up to and following every time the emergency brake systems engaged.

Only then can they determine what percentage of a specific emergency brake system's engagements actually make things more dangerous or are responsible for accidents.

Then they should hold the auto makers accountable, and require them to fix or replace fault vehicles

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#367

Post by tpxl »

shortcake27 wrote: post #352
CWuestefeld wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. I've been a licensed driver for over 40 years. I had one minor fender-bender at 16 years old, learned my lesson, and haven't had another accident since. I'm an exceptionally good driver as evidenced by this, plus the fact that I've taken performance driving classes, simulators, and so forth. I, personally, am a much lower risk than the typical driver. Putting a drivers' aid device in my car may well incre…

Every person on the planet believes they’re an above average driver. No one thinks they need these types of safety features in their car because they’re a safe driver and the problem is every other driver. It terrifies me that people are so oblivious to their own flaws that they would willingly disable features such as AEB if they could. I’m extremely thankful for regulations that prevent such life-saving safety feat…

An average person has 3-4 car crashes in a lifetime. Having 1 minor accident in 40 years of driving is above average.

The only time I ever came close to having a crash is when lane assist tried to drive in the dividers on a highway with construction going on, so lane assist is the first to go in a new car.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#368

Post by ChatGTP »

Tanoc wrote: post #124
ceejayoz wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Statistics are meaningless to the individual. This is just blatantly untrue. > means little compared to an individual who already drives safely without it Until emergency breaking stops a bad driver from T-boning you in an intersection as they run a red light. “I’ll just drive safely” was the argument against seatbelts, airbags, and antilock brakes. Motorcycle helmets, too.

Forward emergency braking systems don't detect such situations. You'd be hit regardless. They only have a 170 degree field of view at the best of times in their current implementations. Somebody two hundred feet away closing at sixty miles an hour will hit you in the side regardless of forward emergency braking simply because it's not designed to look for something moving that quickly that far away at that extreme of…

I’ve never had a bad accident in a car, but the closest I have ever come was in my friends new VW with lane assist on a dark country rode on a bend when the lane markers vanished due to wear.

I started to get lazy and distracted as the car was mostly driving, my friend was talking at me and the assist disengaged, next minute we were going pretty fast towards a barrier. We recovered but it was close.

I’d just prefer to drive honestly.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#369

Post by hnick »

lloeki wrote: post #365
hnick wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My new car has lane keep assist and AEB and I haven't had these issues. From what I hear it's very much to do with a maker's implementation (mine is Hyundai, who for various reasons seems to have a bad reputation in North America but a good one in Australia). For the lane keep assist I feel a nudge but it's extremely easy to overcome just through a normal grip on the wheel - if I don't budge it won't move. It's been…

I have a Mazda too, I can confirm GP statement regarding lane assist... in many areas but not all: - when it works it works so well the car basically drives itself esp. when you throw cruise control into the mix (this includes auto coasting + breaking) - when it doesn't it's bouncing across the lane + applies too much resistance when attempting e.g overtaking I did not have any issue with emergency braking (never tri…

> applies too much resistance when attempting e.g overtaking

It doesn't turn off when you indicate to change lanes? It does on the Hyundai.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#370

Post by globular-toast »

jjav wrote: post #359
mkmk wrote: post #19

This feature once saved me from what would have otherwise been a very nasty crash, many years ago. I was driving too fast in a borrowed car over a small hill and hadn't realized that traffic had stopped just out of my sight until too late. I heard a beep and saw flashing on my dash and I started braking but a moment later the emergency braking system kicked in, braking much harder than I would have been able to. The…

> the emergency braking system kicked in, braking much harder than I would have been able to So this is completely not true. You can brake as hard as any system can, there's no magic to it. Just press on the brake pedal hard, in any ABS car. Surprisingly, this is something people often don't do. I am an instructor at car control clinics, one of the exercises is panic braking. All you need to do it press on the brake…

In the UK the driving test includes an emergency stop which means everyone has to learn to do one. It definitely is surprising the first time you do one. It's worrying that there are drivers out there who haven't done one and don't even think they are capable of doing it when necessary.
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