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California spent $17B on homelessness – it’s not working

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Re: California spent $17B on homelessness – it’s not working

#11

Post by atdrummond »

MattGaiser wrote: post #4

> has about half of the nation’s unsheltered homeless How many are from California and how many were given a bus pass to California by a government content to move the homeless around or on their own accord made their way to California as it has some of the best services? How many are the same homeless people and how many are new homeless people who have replaced the old homeless people, making it appear that no prog…

From the many hundreds of homeless people I’ve met in SF, there’s been a massive increase of out-of-state movement. That said, they seem to mostly come of their own volition - they realize the combination of the nice weather and massive resources available means they have a pretty maintainable lifestyle.

Re: California spent $17B on homelessness – it’s not working

#12

Post by zhte415 »

senttoschool wrote: post #2

Everyone already knows that the more money California spends on homeless, the more of them will come to California. It's a service. The state/city that provides the best service for homeless people - that's where I will try to go if I don't have a home. Politicians don't seem to understand this. Or maybe they do, but they do the wrong thing in order to drum up politically correct votes. Take San Francisco. It spends…

> Martin cited a study from May 2018 by the Los Angeles Homeless Services Authority, which found 75 percent of the people on the street in Los Angeles County had a home in that same county before they lost it. It also showed that 65 percent of the unsheltered homeless had lived in that county for at least 20 years. Only 13 percent were from out of state.

Source: https://www.politifact.com/article/2018/jun/28/dispelling-my...

Everyone knows, in the lyrics of Leonard Cohen -

Everybody knows the good guys lost

Everybody knows the fight was fixed

The poor stay poor, the rich get rich

That's how it goes Everybody knows

Re: California spent $17B on homelessness – it’s not working

#13

Post by atdrummond »

f6v wrote: post #6
senttoschool wrote: post #2

Everyone already knows that the more money California spends on homeless, the more of them will come to California. It's a service. The state/city that provides the best service for homeless people - that's where I will try to go if I don't have a home. Politicians don't seem to understand this. Or maybe they do, but they do the wrong thing in order to drum up politically correct votes. Take San Francisco. It spends…

> With $400m, you can probably just buy a small apartment in Idaho for every single one of them. Problem solved. The problem is that people become homeless due to a number of reasons that include addiction, mental illness, trauma, loss of work, etc. It’s not going to be solved by JUST providing them an apartment. At least not for everyone.

As someone who ended up homeless despite not fitting the typical profile - and has volunteered hundreds (possibly thousands) of hours in the space - you dramatically overstate the case for involuntary homelessness.

There couldn’t be a more significant difference between the homeless populations in places like SF and in other cities in the US with more sensible policies. There’s massively more people in California who are there because they’re voluntarily opting into a lifestyle where all of their capital expenditures are provided by taxpayers and they don’t have to do anything to maintain them other than to remain homeless. Many of these people may seem insane due to their drug use but their mental issues are a result, not a cause; they’re still rational actors responding to a perverse set of incentives.

Re: California spent $17B on homelessness – it’s not working

#16

Post by skrebbel »

atdrummond wrote: post #8

That’s because Cali’s approach is insane. They give you hundreds a month in cash grants (some make $1k a month in SF) and require you to make NO alterations to your lifestyle. I was amazed when living in SF how many of the homeless are not locals. Not even Californians! I myself lived on the streets for a number of years and have dealt with addiction issues. It is absolutely insane how we’ve stopped treating homeless…

How is giving people money unconditionally not treating them as “humans with potential and aspirations”?

I’m not entirely sure what your point is. Are you saying that adding more rules and conditions and whatnot is better?

I don’t have a well-formed opinion here myself, just that most people arguing for treating benefit recipients humanely argue for fewer rules, not more. So I’d like to understand your point better.

Re: California spent $17B on homelessness – it’s not working

#17

Post by realjhol »

skrebbel wrote: post #16
atdrummond wrote: post #8

That’s because Cali’s approach is insane. They give you hundreds a month in cash grants (some make $1k a month in SF) and require you to make NO alterations to your lifestyle. I was amazed when living in SF how many of the homeless are not locals. Not even Californians! I myself lived on the streets for a number of years and have dealt with addiction issues. It is absolutely insane how we’ve stopped treating homeless…

How is giving people money unconditionally not treating them as “humans with potential and aspirations”? I’m not entirely sure what your point is. Are you saying that adding more rules and conditions and whatnot is better? I don’t have a well-formed opinion here myself, just that most people arguing for treating benefit recipients humanely argue for fewer rules, not more. So I’d like to understand your point better.

Giving addicts drug money instead of providing for their needs is the peak of inhumanity.

Re: California spent $17B on homelessness – it’s not working

#18

Post by alpineidyll3 »

Half the dysfunction with political efforts to ameliorate homelessness is the toxicity of touching a difficult issue. Homelessness is beyond any one term or individual to solve. Certainly you cannot cure the addictions, disabilities or madness of these unfortunate people overnight. The only solution people would actually like is if the homeless were to disappear.

Re: California spent $17B on homelessness – it’s not working

#19

Post by russdill »

pharmakom wrote: post #9
senttoschool wrote: post #2

Everyone already knows that the more money California spends on homeless, the more of them will come to California. It's a service. The state/city that provides the best service for homeless people - that's where I will try to go if I don't have a home. Politicians don't seem to understand this. Or maybe they do, but they do the wrong thing in order to drum up politically correct votes. Take San Francisco. It spends…

Very frustrating to see the right blame the left for the homeless problem when the left are the only ones attempting to do anything about it.

Apparently if someone is hungry and you feed them, or if they are naked and you clothe then it's your own damn fault that people keep showing up.

Re: California spent $17B on homelessness – it’s not working

#20

Post by zhte415 »

atdrummond wrote: post #8

That’s because Cali’s approach is insane. They give you hundreds a month in cash grants (some make $1k a month in SF) and require you to make NO alterations to your lifestyle. I was amazed when living in SF how many of the homeless are not locals. Not even Californians! I myself lived on the streets for a number of years and have dealt with addiction issues. It is absolutely insane how we’ve stopped treating homeless…

> I was amazed when living in SF how many of the homeless are not locals. Not even Californians!

Source?

Because this seems to be banded around in comments without anyone sourcing.

I dropped this actual source [1] in another comment, that measures 13% of unsheltered homeless as coming from out of state for LA.

[1] https://www.politifact.com/article/2018/jun/28/dispelling-my...

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