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Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

arstechnica.com

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Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#231

Post by ceejayoz »

loeg wrote: post #225
ceejayoz wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article says: > A metanalysis in 2015 found a 38 percent decrease in collisions for vehicles that utilized such a system, for instance. Barring massive fuckups in methodology, that should account for false positives that cause an accident. The number of non-collision severe injuries (are we theorizing folks get their head banged against something when it brakes heavily?) is likely to be pretty small versus that 3…

This is a pretty big handwave: > The number of non-collision severe injuries (are we theorizing folks get their head banged against something when it brakes heavily?) is likely to be pretty small (People can be injured directly by the seatbelt, and there's also whiplash to consider.)

> People can be injured directly by the seatbelt, and there's also whiplash to consider.

I don't doubt it's possible, just like it's possible for a seatbelt to trap you in a burning car... but common enough to offset a 38% drop in crashes? I severely doubt it.

If someone can demonstrate that people driving these cars have a dramatically increased incidence of whiplash or seatbelt injuries, by all means, but I'm comfortable saying the burden of proof is on them there.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#232

Post by taeric »

toast0 wrote: post #193
taeric wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, most anything is disorienting in crash situations. I recall how disoriented my mother was when a car came from the side and almost hit us. She tried braking and swerving, but that just caused a hydroplane and when the wheels got traction again, jerked us to the side. She was convinced the other car hit us. I was, too, all told. Until I saw that there was no impact on the side of our car. Which is to say, you a…

Well, if it's mandatory on new cars, then kind of everybody knows its there, and then there's the fun of not realizing it's not there on older cars. While it's optional, it might be nice if they had a notice on the dash that it's enabled. On the seatbelt locking, I learned the why when installing car seats, which seems reasonable, because that's what it's for.

They do have a dash notice on the brake engaging. And cars come with a giant book that almost certainly covers it.

And these same concerns apply to antilock brakes, no? Getting used to the way those feel took time for folks that were there before.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#233

Post by jaredhallen »

jacquesm wrote: post #6

This almost got me into a serious accident, twice. Definitely would not recommend and I switched cars because of it. The last thing I need is buggy software with the capability of instantly changing the trajectory of my vehicle (slippery surfaces, cornering). A brand car as well (MB) so really, really disappointed, what should have been a safety feature actually was the opposite. Dealer said everything was fine so th…

There are good points here on both sides. I'm in your camp, personally. I'll probably always drive older cars, because that's just my preference, for many reasons. Maybe the answer is to require the feature on new vehicles, but also have the option to disable it. Most drivers probably wouldn't, but those that feel strongly about it would have the choice.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#234

Post by ISL »

midoridensha wrote: post #206
toast0 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lane keeping assistance, from the context.

Lane-keeping should only be active with cruise control active. You shouldn't be using it in city traffic, ever.

Automatic lane-keeping assist is generally turned on at all times with modern cars.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#235

Post by fwungy »

The point is to gradually remove private automobiles from the transit system by incrementally nudging out their availability, either through expense or added bureaucratic hassle.

The WEF has discussed the need for this repeatedly: don't forget, you'll own nothing and be happy AND safe!

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#236

Post by toss1 »

Holy forking shirtballs - NOOO!!

At least until it is MUCH better. Like 6 orders of magnitude better.

Just watching the "Pre-Collission Warning" red flash and beep on both a Ford Truck and Mazda crossover, there are far tooo many times that it reliably and consistently would brake and CAUSE an accident.

The most common one is where there is a car or obstacle just on the outside of a turn, such as (in the US, left side driver) a left bend in the road with a "Y" intersection going off the right side = outside of the turn, or a vehicle pulling off into a right-side driveway. As I turn left around the bend without much slowing and the other vehicle drives off to the right => "ALARM!!!". It obviously 'thinks' I'm about to rear-end that vehicle, when I know that no such thing will happen (unless I straighten the wheel or turn right for some bad reason). If braking happened here, I'd get rear-ended.

Similarly, I've seen the alert go off on either dirt roads with some random dark spot in the middle, or a regular road with a temporary steel plate over a work trench, or even just a pebble or small branch in the road.

It is clear that all of these miscellaneous items can produce the appearance of an obstacle about to be hit, but that does NOT mean that braking is appropriate.

It looks like instead of moving forward to an all-electric vehicle, I may be going back to restore some early 1990's vehicles and run them until the petrol market is no longer sufficiently viable to support common corner petrol stations.

Just a few hours ago, I saw an pristine but old Porsche 911 with antique plates. Obviously still way fun to actually DRIVE. Seems like a good way to go!

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#237

Post by matheusmoreira »

maximinus_thrax wrote: post #32

Looking at the comments here I need to double check if I'm on some gearhead forum where automatic transmission is considered appropriate exclusively for teenagers and geriatric patients. Anyway, I'll add my anecdote when my Toyota surprised me with a panic brake in a blind corner which probably saved my life by not ending up under a stopped bus. But the kicker is that my insurer gave me quite a steep discount when I…

Wanting to have control over the vehicle is not some "gearhead forum" thing at all. I barely care about cars and I still care about this.

I'm the driver, I should be in control and there's literally no need to justify it any further. Anything that forcibly takes away control is automatically wrong from a basic human dignity perspective. I couldn't care less what governments or insurers think, I'm the goddamn human and I should have total control over this machine. I'm driving, not being driven.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#238

Post by gjs278 »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #237
maximinus_thrax wrote: post #32

Looking at the comments here I need to double check if I'm on some gearhead forum where automatic transmission is considered appropriate exclusively for teenagers and geriatric patients. Anyway, I'll add my anecdote when my Toyota surprised me with a panic brake in a blind corner which probably saved my life by not ending up under a stopped bus. But the kicker is that my insurer gave me quite a steep discount when I…

Wanting to have control over the vehicle is not some "gearhead forum" thing at all. I barely care about cars and I still care about this. I'm the driver, I should be in control and there's literally no need to justify it any further. Anything that forcibly takes away control is automatically wrong from a basic human dignity perspective. I couldn't care less what governments or insurers think, I'm the goddamn human an…

[dead]

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#239

Post by Dylan16807 »

ics wrote: post #50
jacquesm wrote: post #6

This almost got me into a serious accident, twice. Definitely would not recommend and I switched cars because of it. The last thing I need is buggy software with the capability of instantly changing the trajectory of my vehicle (slippery surfaces, cornering). A brand car as well (MB) so really, really disappointed, what should have been a safety feature actually was the opposite. Dealer said everything was fine so th…

I wrote up a long comment that got scrapped by my focus filter but I feel the need to voice strong agreement here. I have a recent Mazda which in almost all ways is my perfect car except for the newfangled safety features all new cars seem to have. Lane correction and emergency braking, even set to the lowest sensitivity levels, are bad to outright dangerous in city (and some country) driving. In NYC it's common to h…

> I wrote up a long comment that got scrapped by my focus filter

I've been making productive use of the "textarea cache" extension lately. Sites and browsers lose text a lot more often than they should.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#240

Post by elif »

jacquesm wrote: post #6

This almost got me into a serious accident, twice. Definitely would not recommend and I switched cars because of it. The last thing I need is buggy software with the capability of instantly changing the trajectory of my vehicle (slippery surfaces, cornering). A brand car as well (MB) so really, really disappointed, what should have been a safety feature actually was the opposite. Dealer said everything was fine so th…

If suddenly braking causes an accident it's because someone was not following at an appropriate distance. You should always allow space for unforseen hazards. It's actually the law.

If both cars have AEB even that unsafe condition becomes a non-issue.

Just because humans have adjusted to regularly driving in an unsafe and illegal manner does not make it the safest way to use roads.

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