Live data from Hacker News

Show HN: I made CSS Pro, a re-imagined Devtools for web design

csspro.com

251–260 of 299 posts

Re: Show HN: I made CSS Pro, a re-imagined Devtools for web design

#251
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly! And I do, in fact, I will pay much more than that for a one-time software payment, and I have. However: > If you have to make your tool a one-time cost, you might come to realize it's not really worth the amount of money you could've made by selling it for $5/mo, and that's a great illustration of just one reason why developers don't like subscriptions. At $900 , it's not so easy of a sell. edit: Especially…

I’d love to see software escrow for companies like this - something as simple as “if we stop making the software or go bankrupt or otherwise make it unable to be used, we have the source code and friends escrowed with a company that will then release it under the AGPL.”

I know of two companies that provide this. My experience is with software written for government entities by a third party. Every time we cut a new release, we would have to go through an escrow process to provide the services with a VM image that would allow our clients to build from source our entire software stack along with the ability to host the software either in house or in the cloud. It was a very expensive and time consuming processes and my ex-employer charged a fortune to any clients that wanted it.

https://nationalsoftwareescrow.com/what-is-software-escrow/

https://softwareresilience.nccgroup.com/software-escrow-serv...

Re: Show HN: I made CSS Pro, a re-imagined Devtools for web design

#252
post #162
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have a one-time pay option. $900. So, if you love to pay for nice things as long as you can own them, they have an option for you.

Exactly! And I do, in fact, I will pay much more than that for a one-time software payment, and I have. However: > If you have to make your tool a one-time cost, you might come to realize it's not really worth the amount of money you could've made by selling it for $5/mo, and that's a great illustration of just one reason why developers don't like subscriptions. At $900 , it's not so easy of a sell. edit: Especially…

You're still proving rcconf's bigger point - don't sell tools to developers, because we suck to sell to. This leaves us with shitty free tools, or really expensive ones that tie us to our employers. Want to leave your job? I mean, sure, you can, but on top of needing to find a new job, you'll need to learn a completely different development environment. Which is just life, I suppose.

Re: Show HN: I made CSS Pro, a re-imagined Devtools for web design

#253
post #69

Honestly the comments are a good example on how difficult it is to sell to developers and why startup ideas that target developers are dangerous to bootstrap. Developers have high incomes, but are quite frankly, extremely cheap. And I actually mean cheap and not frugal. They will spend 40 hours/week for months to save $5/mo. There's basically no logic apart from that developers have a poor concept of time and money a…

On the other hand there are thousands of things that will make my life easier and you're right I will not spend 30,000 dollars a month to make my life easier.

At any rate I'm not sure if I think this thing would actually make my life easier. Arguments:

1. For all the whining CSS is actually one of the easiest parts of the stack, when there is a CSS bug it is generally something like - a thing is slightly off position on this screen size or the color is a bit wrong not it is possible to access another customer's account if you know what day they signed up and their email (not real bug that I've ever encountered)

2. I'm relatively good at CSS so probably this will produce worse CSS than I would do myself - although nowadays the libraries that are most popular tend to hide the 'complexity' of CSS in a JavaScript layer that produces the actual crap CSS for you so whatever.

3. I have to click and point on things etc. I hate that. That makes things slower for me. I write text in files. quick.

This is actually probably not for a developer - but for a designer who can have a design view of what the developer did and tweak a few things with this tool, hopefully make a PR and so forth.

Yes it should be bought by a company because then - tax deductible and designer is using with developer so on team.

Re: Show HN: I made CSS Pro, a re-imagined Devtools for web design

#254
post #69

Honestly the comments are a good example on how difficult it is to sell to developers and why startup ideas that target developers are dangerous to bootstrap. Developers have high incomes, but are quite frankly, extremely cheap. And I actually mean cheap and not frugal. They will spend 40 hours/week for months to save $5/mo. There's basically no logic apart from that developers have a poor concept of time and money a…

$360 is only 3 dinners for 2 people?

Developers are cheap and the loudest are the most privileged living in SV earning insane wages can be true at the same time

Re: Show HN: I made CSS Pro, a re-imagined Devtools for web design

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every developer understands how subscriptions work. A product may provide value today, but there’s no guarantee that the payoff will be worth the cost in the long run as the company increases its prices. With a subscription, you’re agreeing to let a company tax you to do your job in the hope that it pays off instead paying upfront one time for a product.

>but there’s no guarantee that the payoff will be worth the cost in the long run as the company increases its prices. You can cancel a subscription

It's a problem, though, to become reliant on something and then experience a rugpull. A lot of people seem to think that you pay for a product and then in exchange you get increased productivity, and the only "cost" is, well, the cost. But it's not. Once you start becoming reliant on something to do your job, you orient your workflow around it. There may be alternatives, but it costs your time and effort to switch. It differs per tool: imagine switching text editors though. That's a very non-trivial endeavor for many software developers, even people who use fairly stock editors will have become pretty integrated into how their setup works, with hundreds of hours of muscle memory and re-orienting yourself to the "mental model" it has.

That's exactly why people selling products love subscriptions so much. It's not JUST reliable income. It's sticky. If I own something for real, as in it works offline with no activation garbage needed, I can just not pay for the new version if I don't like it. Maybe the old one becomes obsolete eventually, so it's not risk-free, but nonetheless. But, if a subscription fee increases, my options are typically 1. Go to hell.

Am I exaggerating? Well, yes and no. For one thing, I have really truly experienced the rugpull. It doesn't even have to be malicious, it can be as simple as "company disappears". The more established and trustworthy a company has proven to be, the more willing I am to put up with some loss of control. But monthly subscriptions to random products I see on HN? No thanks.

I'm not even asking for a perpetual lifetime license, which I already find sketchy from a sustainability standpoint. I am fine with the old-school "upgrade license" concept employed by say, VMWare and friends, and the less DRM-heavy the solution is, the better.

Re: Show HN: I made CSS Pro, a re-imagined Devtools for web design

#257
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't like subscriptions. And for entirely rational reasons, even if they can't articulate them. If you insist on selling subscriptions for people, they will treat it as predatory pricing (because for them it is) and will antagonize you. Companies, on the other hand, just love subscriptions. Also for entirely rational reasons. Now, if you insist on ignoring that fundamental difference, it's a "you" problem, no…

People keep saying there are rational reasons, but I haven’t seen a single response here that doesn’t boil down to “feels”. They have a perpetual license option, not hidden. I think maybe people have so much feels that they are just bandwagoning here rather than using their noggins and evaluating the value of the product. Disappointing. Wanting to pay $900 for a product that might stop existing or be outcompeted in a…

There were plenty of reasons on the threads here if you look for it. Just because somebody is mostly talking about emotions doesn't mean the argument are not rational.

Anyway, people have different risk profiles than companies. Interest-rate based present day adjustments are meaningless, because they don't have the same opportunities on monetary markets; existential risks are well, really existential, instead of what they are for companies; power relations are extremely important, because people don't get any power; and so on.

Again, if you insist on fixing it, it's a "you" problem that will lead to well deserve failures.

Re: Show HN: I made CSS Pro, a re-imagined Devtools for web design

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Monthly subscriptions suck. Every company wants to "tax" me monthly for something that's feature complete. The ones I already pay, I do so very begrudgingly. There's simply too many SaaS products out there. Let's go back to perpetual licenses. And I'll gladly pay for upgraded versions, or not if the upgrade isn't worthwhile. When it's not SaaS, I also get to control what version I'm using. The product doesn't own…

I don't disagree with what you saying, but ... People seem to forget what the cost of a perpetual license use to be. Licenses would easily equate to 3-years (36-months) or more , of what a monthly subscription would cost. Case in point: $439, you can buy a perpetual license of Microsoft Office $7/mo, you can get the same functionality + hosting + storage as a monthly subscription It'd take over 5-years to breakeven.…

Subscription: access the hosted MS Word with a browser installed on a device.

Perpetual: instal MS Word on the device.

“hosting” may supports subscription tech needs but doesn’t affect my experience asside from a new point of failure.

Storage is nice but I already have my HDD, USB key, Google Drive and it’s works great. I understand MS has interests to make me store my stuff in their cloud. I don’t. Bonus point: you own your data in addition to the soft (not with g-drive of course)

Re: Show HN: I made CSS Pro, a re-imagined Devtools for web design

#260

This is a wonderful interface! Great UX, really landmark, effortless design! Reminds me of Bret Victor, and the top notch best products to come out of Apple and Google. You have produced something that big companies spend millions, thousands of developer and designer hours, and months to build. You are truly awesome! Thank you for inspiring the world with this awesome work!!! :) ;P xx ;p Do you have a GitHub or place…

Are you a chat gpt bot?

Ha ha ha. bringing your negativity. Triggered by positivity.
Post reply on HN