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Auschwitz museum criticizes use of death camp in politics

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Re: Auschwitz museum criticizes use of death camp in politics

#71

Post by jruohonen »

that_guy_iain wrote: post #69
jruohonen wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why were the death camps in Poland and not Germany? Bergen-Belsen, Buchenwald, Dachau, Oranienburg, Ravensbrück, Sachsenhausen... You can argue about the semantics (i.e., death camps versus concentration camps), but massive executions happened in both, and some of these were established throughout Germany almost immediately after the regime change in 1933. That said, see the points below about Holocaust.

> You can argue about the semantics (i.e., death camps versus concentration camps), Hundreds of thousands of deaths is semantics? That is a disgusting point of view. I wanted to ignore this entire conversation because there is no postive side to it. But quite simply it is disgusting to minimise the horrors that happened at camps like Auschwitz by comparing it with camps such as Dachau and it really highlights the fac…

Read my comment again: it was a reply to your false claim that there weren't camps in Germany.

Re: Auschwitz museum criticizes use of death camp in politics

#72

Post by that_guy_iain »

jruohonen wrote: post #71
that_guy_iain wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can argue about the semantics (i.e., death camps versus concentration camps), Hundreds of thousands of deaths is semantics? That is a disgusting point of view. I wanted to ignore this entire conversation because there is no postive side to it. But quite simply it is disgusting to minimise the horrors that happened at camps like Auschwitz by comparing it with camps such as Dachau and it really highlights the fac…

Read my comment again: it was a reply to your false claim that there weren't camps in Germany.

I didn't claim there were no camps in Germany, I said there were no death camps - camps built to kill people, camps equipped for mass killing. Your response was to mention other camps and to say the difference between them is semantics when the difference between them is literally hundreds of thousands of deaths.

Re: Auschwitz museum criticizes use of death camp in politics

#73

Post by jruohonen »

that_guy_iain wrote: post #72
jruohonen wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read my comment again: it was a reply to your false claim that there weren't camps in Germany.

I didn't claim there were no camps in Germany, I said there were no death camps - camps built to kill people, camps equipped for mass killing. Your response was to mention other camps and to say the difference between them is semantics when the difference between them is literally hundreds of thousands of deaths.

I think it is still semantics, and particularly semantics invented by the regime itself, which had a whole vocabulary for camps. But by no means am I trying to downplay the atrocities that happened in the extermination camps, including Auschwitz-Birkenau where I've also been. The examples were given to you to refute your mission about Germans not knowing what was happening; political opponents, Jews, criminals, minorities, and others were interred already in the 1930s.

Re: Auschwitz museum criticizes use of death camp in politics

#74

Post by that_guy_iain »

jruohonen wrote: post #73
that_guy_iain wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't claim there were no camps in Germany, I said there were no death camps - camps built to kill people, camps equipped for mass killing. Your response was to mention other camps and to say the difference between them is semantics when the difference between them is literally hundreds of thousands of deaths.

I think it is still semantics, and particularly semantics invented by the regime itself, which had a whole vocabulary for camps. But by no means am I trying to downplay the atrocities that happened in the extermination camps, including Auschwitz-Birkenau where I've also been. The examples were given to you to refute your mission about Germans not knowing what was happening; political opponents, Jews, criminals, minor…

You can argue the semantics with Auschwitz - http://70.auschwitz.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=ar...

Re: Auschwitz museum criticizes use of death camp in politics

#75

Post by raadore »

Hold a moment. A politician called out publicly the following phrase: “Gas chamber for President Duda and Premier Kaczynski.” This, by any measure, is considered Hate Speech as it calls for extreme violence, ask any Jew or Pole who stayed or visited Auschwitz.

I think the fact that there had been no outrage reaction to his public demonstration of extreme violence and a call for his resignation means that people no longer remember what a great technological bathroom invention the German people developed in the early 1940s called “The Shower Chamber” which was provided free of charge to travellers exiting the trains upon arrival at Auschwitz.

Therefore, it is my opinion that this spot is a great way to reboot and restart the holocaust education of young and old people everywhere to ensure no person utters such Hateful words to another human being on earth.

Re: Auschwitz museum criticizes use of death camp in politics

#76

Post by jruohonen »

that_guy_iain wrote: post #74
jruohonen wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is still semantics, and particularly semantics invented by the regime itself, which had a whole vocabulary for camps. But by no means am I trying to downplay the atrocities that happened in the extermination camps, including Auschwitz-Birkenau where I've also been. The examples were given to you to refute your mission about Germans not knowing what was happening; political opponents, Jews, criminals, minor…

You can argue the semantics with Auschwitz - http://70.auschwitz.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=ar...

That was a good link, but it doesn't still undermine the fact you are on a mission.

Re: Auschwitz museum criticizes use of death camp in politics

#77

Post by [deleted] »

Timon3 wrote: post #68
pphysch wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't just Jewish people, it was any group associated with the USSR. Socialists, communists, etc. Anyways, I'm sure the European fascists will be right this time, and nothing will go wrong.

You're right, I'm sorry - the Russian people are living through the exact same trauma that Jewish people went through. They are being banned from society for no good reason, and are slowly but surely being killed through a bureaucratic death machine. It's the exact same situation. Literally.

[deleted]

Re: Auschwitz museum criticizes use of death camp in politics

#78

Post by maratc »

raadore wrote: post #75

Hold a moment. A politician called out publicly the following phrase: “Gas chamber for President Duda and Premier Kaczynski.” This, by any measure, is considered Hate Speech as it calls for extreme violence, ask any Jew or Pole who stayed or visited Auschwitz. I think the fact that there had been no outrage reaction to his public demonstration of extreme violence and a call for his resignation means that people no lo…

> A politician called out publicly

Not a politician but a journalist...

> the following phrase: “Gas chamber for President Duda and Premier Kaczynski.”

... except he wrote it in Polish, not English, using the word "komora" that means both a [prison] cell and a [gas] chamber.

He also clarified later that he meant a [prison] cell, deleted his tweet, and apologized.

All of this is clearly outlined in TLA, which unfortunately you didn't bother to read.

Re: Auschwitz museum criticizes use of death camp in politics

#79

Post by maratc »

jruohonen wrote: post #43
that_guy_iain wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What have you been reading? And an open secret pretty much means it wasn't public policy or politics. And higher estimates don't really make sense, why were the allied forces in the dark? Why were the death camps in Poland and not Germany? People who were living nearby, I will never be convinced they didn't know. But expecting someone in Fankfurt am Main to know about the mass executions happening in small towns in P…

> Why were the death camps in Poland and not Germany? Bergen-Belsen, Buchenwald, Dachau, Oranienburg, Ravensbrück, Sachsenhausen... You can argue about the semantics (i.e., death camps versus concentration camps), but massive executions happened in both, and some of these were established throughout Germany almost immediately after the regime change in 1933. That said, see the points below about Holocaust.

> You can argue about the semantics (i.e., death camps versus concentration camps)

Saying that the difference between death camps versus concentration camps is "semantics" is extremely problematic point of view. This is like arguing that the difference between an electric car and an electric chair is "semantics", since both "use electricity". It completely misses the intent.

The Khmer Rouge, for example, murdered about two million of their own population, from 1975 to 1979, with 60% of them by direct execution, over a vast territory — places known today as "killing fields" (mass graves which today are a morbid place of remembrance).

Compare that to Treblinka, where the Nazis managed to murder about one million, in about one year, and all that in an area of two football fields — while leaving almost no traces.

So, the Nazis were about 4 times more "effective" with regards to rate, thousands of times more "effective" with regards to area, and indefinitely more "effective" with regards to not leaving traces.

This is because Treblinka was built by using the Nazi industrial complex, as a modern factory, but instead of producing as much stuff as possible in the most effective way, they have planned and built it to murder (and burn) as many people as possible in the most effective way.

The intent is what differentiates the concentration camps (basically, a prison, and a very terrible one!) and the extermination camp (basically, industrial complex for killing people).

Re: Auschwitz museum criticizes use of death camp in politics

#80

Post by lisasays »

pphysch wrote: post #38
Invictus0 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Judaism is a largely unorganized religion with no military. Russia is a large hostile state with a history of attacking Poland and possessor of, at one point, a strong military.

The Nazi belief at the time was that Judaism was an integral component of "Judeo-Bolshevism" i.e. the USSR so it is not correct to assert that there was "no military" -- the USSR had a rapidly growing industrial military. German fascists thought that all Jewish people were in cahoots with the USSR, which was Definitely trying to conquer all of Europa. Polish fascists think all ethnically Russian people are in cahoots…

Polish fascists think all ethnically Russian people are in cahoots with the RF MoD, which is Definitely trying to conquer all of Europa.

That's not what they think. As you know. This kind of intentional blurring and hyperbole is really quite tiresome.

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