Live data from Hacker News

What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

theatlantic.com

141–150 of 418 posts

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#141
post #134
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully, the last thing I'm going to do is put in work with my ex wife. When the kids are with me I'll do whatever I want. Those types of discussions are one of the reasons why we're no longer together.

You're going to love it when the kids reach puberty.

I don't understand all this drama. My kids have reached teenage without many horrors or fights between any of us, and I think that we're all pretty normal.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#142
post #5

Euro perspective: sounds like an american problem of people moving halfway across the country instead of usually settling down nearby with their highschool friends doing mostly the same thing.

Most Americans live within driving distance of where they grew up. 60% within 10 miles, 80% within 100 miles.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#143
family is a spontaneous and natural form of human bond of which marriage (monogamy) is a centrepiece. from housing, working hours, career drive, tertiary education, pure capitalism is constantly creating conditions that put enormous pressures for families to succeed. pieces like this, i think, are only an attempt to rationalize or moralize something that is causing huge alienation of humanity from itself

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#144
post #110
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As they age, you're going to find a whole different level of arguing about how to raise kids on an every-other-week rotation with conflicting influences/decisions. Trust me, I've seen it. It can work, but you're gonna need to put in some work on the relationship with the other parent to get through it and find decent compromises.

Respectfully, the last thing I'm going to do is put in work with my ex wife. When the kids are with me I'll do whatever I want. Those types of discussions are one of the reasons why we're no longer together.

Speaking as someone who's been on the child side of such a relationship: be careful not to berate your children over what they do when with her, and don't put the other parent down in front of your kids. They'll grow up policing their own behaviour to avoid a parent-parent confrontation and that might trigger anxiety issues.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#145
post #18

As an adult, friendships keep passing by. All of a sudden a good friend "gets busy" or "life just happens". I really do not believe it anymore, even if people are genuinely busy, the least they can do is spare a few seconds of their day to reply back to a text? After what can only be described as a long "sliding window" of maintaining multiple friendships, seeing one tail expire and me actively trying to build more,…

Don't read into this question more than necessary: are you a "generic" American (non-immigrant, born and raised, family has been here for more than 3 generations, no strong ethnic ties) or primarily surrounded by "generic" Americans? I've found most of my long-term, "deep" relationships in the U.S. to be with immigrants/foreigners. With the "generic" Americans, I can get to the point of a friendly and jolly relations…

Are you a "generic" American?

I'm simply asking to get a better understanding of your view.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#146
post #23

As advanced countries' systems for marriage and child-rearing continue to fail, there is a constant demand for cope. What if we learned to love being single? What if we substitute friendship for marriage? 64 ways to enjoy retirement on your own! This is the collective version of listening to an alcoholic explain why he doesn't have a problem.

> As advanced countries' systems for marriage and child-rearing continue to fail, there is a constant demand for cope. Make childcare not a choice between living in poverty and not, and people will have children again. Many of my generation including myself can't afford children despite us wanting to. The worst problem is obviously housing costs and cost of living in general, coupled with wage stagnation. We don't wa…

> We don't want women to be stay-at-home mothers for good reasons, but society as it is hasn't caught up with that

I don't think we should want women to be anything in particular. Saying they shouldn't be stay at home mums is wrong, just as saying that men shouldn't be stay-at-home dads is wrong, if they can afford to be. And society has caught up in the sense that house prices are driven up by bids from two-person incomes.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#147
Conversations like this, and the pockets of earnest polyamory / ethical non-monogamy feel driven by the failure of a relationship mono-model to keep up with reality. Even if one, in theory, would like to be married to one person and build a deeply shared life with them - life does not wait for them to show up. My parents tell me stories of finding bay area housing by walking down the street in the marina district and doing a handshake deal with someone who had a room for rent - which simply wasn't the reality I faced when I struck out on my own. People who are in their mid-to-late 30s now often went through a focused process of peer selection and devoted life-intertwining in order to simply live and work over the last decade. It's no surprise to me that people in our generation are more devoted to that network of relationships that previous generations did not require in order to "make it."

I am personally really curious to see what will become of this tend. It seems to me that economic conditions will continue to reward people for banding together and pooling resources to get access to housing / work spaces / childcare. I don't think it's right to say that the economic pressure 'causes' these social shifts - more that it allows people to recognize that they could live another way if they so chose. The US has historically been pretty disdainful of living situations that aren't nuclear families - but I hope we are entering a period of greater openness and recognition of the diversity of arrangements that work for those in them.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#148
post #108

I never thought marriage was at the center of life, and I'm a bit surprised to think some people think that way. In my book marriage is a contract whose main purpose is to agree on what will happen when the spouse divorce (which happens for more than 45% of marriages in my country, and growing). It's not clear to me why it should be a the center of anything, and of life especially. Friendship on the other hand feels…

That's such a weird way of thinking to me. I'm not saying you're wrong, it's just super alien.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#149
post #23

As advanced countries' systems for marriage and child-rearing continue to fail, there is a constant demand for cope. What if we learned to love being single? What if we substitute friendship for marriage? 64 ways to enjoy retirement on your own! This is the collective version of listening to an alcoholic explain why he doesn't have a problem.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: There is more than one kind of relationship! It's exhausting to constantly hear about romantic commitment as if it's the barometer for all relationships . That's absurd! Did it truly never cross your mind that a person can have more than one meaningful relationship in their lives? No wonder people are so lonely! You don't need one or the other: you can participate in a close…

this sounds like you think you are saying something entirely novel. it is actually just common sense. see it is true there are many kinds of relationships, but there is only one type of relationship that resembles having a successful marriage and family, and it is quite special

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#150
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't always happen though. I feel the most lonely when I'm alone with my wife. We can only have a back and forth conversation on topics that interest her, or the day to day of the house/kids, anything outside those things is just never discussed or is a one-way conversation that just dies. I was friendless and grew up with the same 15 boys until the end of highschool, never fit in. Married the first girl who…

Dude, this isn't "normal". "I'm most lonely when I'm alone with my wife" -- that is not healthy or good. I don't think your situation is applicable to the OP. As a counter, I feel most comfortable when I am alone with my wife. She is my best friend.

>Dude, this isn't "normal".

That is debatable. What's not debatable is that it's not healthy. Unfortunately a lot of marriages are not healthy so what is 'good' and what is 'normal' significantly differ.

I grew up around a lot of evangelical religious people and there was a massive amount of pressure on people to get married. Conversely there was no pressure to make sure you got along with the people and were going to be happy. This lead to pretty much all my friends having short marriages that ended in divorce.

Marriages are like diets. Some people eat healthily and get the benefits from it, a lot of people have no idea how to eat healthily and suffer because of it.

Post reply on HN