Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say • Hacker News Board

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#31

Post by karaterobot » Thu, Jun 01, 2023, 2:55 PM UTC

ddalcino wrote: post #20

jacquesm wrote: post #6

This almost got me into a serious accident, twice. Definitely would not recommend and I switched cars because of it. The last thing I need is buggy software with the capability of instantly changing the trajectory of my vehicle (slippery surfaces, cornering). A brand car as well (MB) so really, really disappointed, what should have been a safety feature actually was the opposite. Dealer said everything was fine so th…

Would you care to elaborate on what went wrong? The other comments here make ‘automatic emergency braking’ sound like a really good idea, and it’s hard for me to imagine that this particular feature would be so problematic. If you’re talking about other automatic steering features, that’s very different, and your comment makes more sense to me.

Not the person you were responding to, but here's an anecdatum:

One time I was driving behind someone under otherwise normal conditions, and they turned right into a parking lot. As they turned right, they obviously began exiting the road. The screen on my car screamed "BRAKE!" and then the braking system activated. They were about 60% of the way into the parking lot, and continuing to exit. I was at a normal following distance, going a normal speed, and they were just making a right into a parking lot. This was a very ordinary situation, and the emergency warning was unexpected.

Now, technically, if that car had completely stopped for some reason instead of continuing to exit, I guess I could have hit the back corner of the bumper. That is, if I hadn't, you know, shifted a couple feet to the left to avoid it.

Ironically, the emergency braking alarm was so distracting that it might have caused me to hit the car in front of me if the brakes hadn't activated, and if I had needed to steer to avoid an accident.

And if the person behind me hadn't seen my brakes suddenly activate, they might have hit me. Or, if the person behind them hadn't seen their brakes activate, they might have hit them. And so on.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#32

Post by maximinus_thrax » Thu, Jun 01, 2023, 2:55 PM UTC

Looking at the comments here I need to double check if I'm on some gearhead forum where automatic transmission is considered appropriate exclusively for teenagers and geriatric patients.

Anyway, I'll add my anecdote when my Toyota surprised me with a panic brake in a blind corner which probably saved my life by not ending up under a stopped bus. But the kicker is that my insurer gave me quite a steep discount when I originally bought the car, specifically due to the emergency brake feature. They may have more data comparing collisions for cars with/without this feature than anons on internet forums, who knows?

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#33

Post by lsaferite » Thu, Jun 01, 2023, 2:55 PM UTC

burgerzzz wrote: post #21

ddalcino wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you care to elaborate on what went wrong? The other comments here make ‘automatic emergency braking’ sound like a really good idea, and it’s hard for me to imagine that this particular feature would be so problematic. If you’re talking about other automatic steering features, that’s very different, and your comment makes more sense to me.

I’ve had the automatic breaking in my Jeep take effect needlessly, which can be quite jarring

My Kia has AEB, Lane Keeping, and Adaptive Cruise Control. They have false positive type events from time to time, but generally you just know when it's going to happen. The first couple of times it was a shock, but I've never had it trigger in such a way that I felt like it would cause an accident. That being said, you can't just leave it un attended. You're still the PiC of the vehicle.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#34

Post by caconym_ » Thu, Jun 01, 2023, 2:55 PM UTC

sidewndr46 wrote: post #9

dalyons wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet I have it in my very real world (and unexciting) Subaru for years and it never does what you say. I’m guessing it has some idea of differential speeds , not just distance-to-object

so if someone merges over into your lane where you are it doesn't activate? I must not understand the point of this feature then.

On my Honda if a car merges in front of me and is accelerating, it maintains its speed presumably on the assumption that the separation will continue to increase. If a car merges in front and is slower than me, i.e. separation is decreasing, it will brake in an attempt to maintain the set following distance.

In practice it does leave a bit more following distance than most human drivers, but your worry of constantly getting cut off until you come to a stop in the road is not a real thing. This is partly because the car modifies the set following distance based on speed, so that the same setting is much closer at e.g. 5 mph than at 60.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#35

Post by nradov » Thu, Jun 01, 2023, 2:57 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #6

This almost got me into a serious accident, twice. Definitely would not recommend and I switched cars because of it. The last thing I need is buggy software with the capability of instantly changing the trajectory of my vehicle (slippery surfaces, cornering). A brand car as well (MB) so really, really disappointed, what should have been a safety feature actually was the opposite. Dealer said everything was fine so th…

There appear to be major variations between manufacturers. I've driven many miles on a wide variety of roads in a Subaru and haven't experienced any false positive automatic braking incidents. However, the system does automatically disable itself (and warns the driver accordingly) in heavy precipitation so there is still significant room for improvement.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#36

Post by jacquesm » Thu, Jun 01, 2023, 2:57 PM UTC

ddalcino wrote: post #20

jacquesm wrote: post #6

This almost got me into a serious accident, twice. Definitely would not recommend and I switched cars because of it. The last thing I need is buggy software with the capability of instantly changing the trajectory of my vehicle (slippery surfaces, cornering). A brand car as well (MB) so really, really disappointed, what should have been a safety feature actually was the opposite. Dealer said everything was fine so th…

Would you care to elaborate on what went wrong? The other comments here make ‘automatic emergency braking’ sound like a really good idea, and it’s hard for me to imagine that this particular feature would be so problematic. If you’re talking about other automatic steering features, that’s very different, and your comment makes more sense to me.

I've detailed this in older comments, in a nutshell the first time was on a wet bridge where the car mistook the return of the bridge supports for an imminent crash causing the car to go into a spin (and on a narrow bridge that could have ended really badly, especially because of those supports). I had the car checked out and it was declared healthy, and that it must have been something spurious. A short while later it did it again, this time in a corner where an advertising sign was placed such that oncoming traffic could read it, again the car braked violently resulting causing some loss of control so it swerved into the oncoming lane. Fortunately no traffic there. I sold it right after and won't be buying another MB, ever. They've really lost the plot if they believe that this sort of thing is acceptable in a production vehicle for their regular clientele.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#37

Post by jacquesm » Thu, Jun 01, 2023, 3:01 PM UTC

steve_adams_86 wrote: post #29

jacquesm wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you don't want your wife's mom driving with you and the rest of the family in the car. Sounds like she quite possibly should not be driving at all. That must have been pretty scary.

It was one of the scariest vehicle incidents I’ve been in (thankfully). She really shouldn’t be driving; she seems almost senile to me, but her kids and husband are determined to pretend nothing is going on. She lives full time in Mexico so there’s not a lot I can do other than be grateful for that buffer.

I once was in the car with an American friend who was looking sideways while talking to me and would then swerve around cars in front at the last moment. Very annoying and quite scary. I asked him to stop the car and got out. There is no way I'll trust my life to someone who isn't 100% on the ball when it comes to driving. Good for you you did not end up in an accident there, and it must really suck that you are essentially powerless to do something about it given the family relationship. But, at least one very positive story about automatic emergency braking. I think such features are quite possibly a net positive from a statistical perspective but for me personally they are a no-go.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#38

Post by jacquesm » Thu, Jun 01, 2023, 3:04 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #35

jacquesm wrote: post #6

This almost got me into a serious accident, twice. Definitely would not recommend and I switched cars because of it. The last thing I need is buggy software with the capability of instantly changing the trajectory of my vehicle (slippery surfaces, cornering). A brand car as well (MB) so really, really disappointed, what should have been a safety feature actually was the opposite. Dealer said everything was fine so th…

There appear to be major variations between manufacturers. I've driven many miles on a wide variety of roads in a Subaru and haven't experienced any false positive automatic braking incidents. However, the system does automatically disable itself (and warns the driver accordingly) in heavy precipitation so there is still significant room for improvement.

> the system does automatically disable itself (and warns the driver accordingly) in heavy precipitation

That would have saved me one of two incidents so Subaru may well be the one doing this right.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#39

Post by lsaferite » Thu, Jun 01, 2023, 3:04 PM UTC

mint2 wrote: post #17

jacquesm wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because the automatic braking 'feature' can cause you to crash.

Keep in mind that Not every car brand has the executional prowess of Tesla. As the others have mentioned I’ve never experienced phantom braking on my Subaru while driving. It hasn’t even done the object detected warning beeping when driving on actual roads, which I assume happens prior to the braking. The times I’ve had that warning are parking head on against walls and approach fast, and on one particular 15 mph off…

My Kia likes to trigger the ~~AEB~~ Collision Avoidance warning when people are turning off the road in front of me. It's really only triggered when it _thinks_ a vehicle is in my path, but it's really exiting the path and just still in the periphery. I get about as many false positive type events with the lane keeping feature. I've learned, the hard way, that not all lane markings are to spec. The worst are when you have a side road and the solid white line curves off the road but they don't have a dotted white line continuing straight. The car loves to pull to the right in those cases. Not hard, but enough that you know it's being daft.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#40

Post by nzrf » Thu, Jun 01, 2023, 3:04 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #6

This almost got me into a serious accident, twice. Definitely would not recommend and I switched cars because of it. The last thing I need is buggy software with the capability of instantly changing the trajectory of my vehicle (slippery surfaces, cornering). A brand car as well (MB) so really, really disappointed, what should have been a safety feature actually was the opposite. Dealer said everything was fine so th…

Fully agree. As it is fine most the time it comes back to the other part where it is wrong.

Example: living in cold weather climate my outback just stops cuts the engine when exhaust from the car leaves car in front of me on cold day( large cloud of vapor). The visual collision avoidance detects this as car and cuts the engine. This is not the place you want to be leaving an intersection with people accelerating behind you.

Unless this backed by lidar / radar or combination that is more accurate I don’t see this as pro. Top reason I can’t stand my outback is the decisions it makes incorrectly.

Of course there is no way to get any of this fixed in my outback other than selling it. Consumers are getting the shaft on technology in their cars imo and are being treated as test pilots.