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Research Finds Women Are Advantaged in Being Hired in Academic Science

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Re: Research Finds Women Are Advantaged in Being Hired in Academic Science

#21

Post by torstenvl »

drc500free wrote: post #5

Please replace the editorialized headline with the actual one (Exploring Gender Bias in Six Key Domains of Academic Science: An Adversarial Collaboration) From the abstract: > our findings show that tenure-track women are at parity with tenure-track men in three domains (grant funding, journal acceptances, and recommendation letters) and are advantaged over men in a fourth domain (hiring). For teaching ratings and sa…

Hmm. I'm not convinced that teaching ratings can be considered a separate domain, given that hiring is a domain and finds a bias in favor of women.

If hiring decisions factor in both an applicant's demonstrated ability to teach a subject and whether the applicant is a woman, each institution (except the absolute top most competitive institution) will see a negative correlation between the two factors. https://brilliant.org/wiki/berksons-paradox/

Re: Research Finds Women Are Advantaged in Being Hired in Academic Science

#22

Post by PartiallyTyped »

Daub wrote: post #8
nerdchum wrote: post #3

More women than men attend college as well. Women are not however overrepresented in the top 10 most dangerous jobs or the military or the homeless population. A lot of talk about the glass ceiling but none about the glass floor.

Not only that, but poorly performing students are more likely to be male, whilst excellent students are more likely to be female. This is true across almsot all disaplines.

One of the best suggestions on dealing with this academic discrepancy is having boys take one more year in kindergarten, so that they are one year older than the girls in their grade / year.

I'd take this one step further, and claim - from anecdata - that kids should be in quarters, and defer middle school until 6*4 or 7*4 quarters have been reached for girls and boys respectively.

My class in highschool, mostly people who ended up mathematicians, doctors, etc, most of us were born in the first quarter of the year. Do take with a large grain of salt as a) it's been 10 years, and b) this is likely biased bc of the book "outliers".

Re: Research Finds Women Are Advantaged in Being Hired in Academic Science

#23

Post by w0m »

bell-cot wrote: post #15
kramerger wrote: post #6

> tenure-track women are at parity with tenure-track men in three domains (grant funding, journal acceptances, and recommendation letters) and are advantaged over men in a fourth domain (hiring). For teaching ratings and salaries, we found evidence of bias against women So easier to hire but lower salary? Can we call it a draw?

With how poorly academics are paid these days, and the grueling hours they have to work - is "women more readily hired into slave-labor jobs" an advantage for the women, or for the men?

> With how poorly academics are paid these days

VS top private institutions I'd believe it; but that would surprise me overall.

https://www.comparably.com/salaries/salaries-for-tenured-pro... ~156k/year being my first search hit across all fields; but that also includes Arts and the like where private industry (and professor salary) is much lower Finance as an example will bring it up drastically.

Re: Research Finds Women Are Advantaged in Being Hired in Academic Science

#24

Post by JamesBarney »

drc500free wrote: post #5

Please replace the editorialized headline with the actual one (Exploring Gender Bias in Six Key Domains of Academic Science: An Adversarial Collaboration) From the abstract: > our findings show that tenure-track women are at parity with tenure-track men in three domains (grant funding, journal acceptances, and recommendation letters) and are advantaged over men in a fourth domain (hiring). For teaching ratings and sa…

The one that runs counter to the pending narrative.

If a study finds broccoli and cigarettes could cause pancreatic cancer the headlines sure as heck isn't going to read "cigarettes might cause cancer"

Re: Research Finds Women Are Advantaged in Being Hired in Academic Science

#27

Post by LanceH »

drc500free wrote: post #5

Please replace the editorialized headline with the actual one (Exploring Gender Bias in Six Key Domains of Academic Science: An Adversarial Collaboration) From the abstract: > our findings show that tenure-track women are at parity with tenure-track men in three domains (grant funding, journal acceptances, and recommendation letters) and are advantaged over men in a fourth domain (hiring). For teaching ratings and sa…

A university I went to left a hiring document out marked "confidential". It specifically stated that preferences in hiring go to women and minorities when at all possible. It was not stated as "tie breaker" but stated that they would look at men once women and minorities had been exhausted. For a discrimination lawsuit it would have been a smoking gun. This was in the 90's. I imagine things are similar today, but nobody would have it written down.

Re: Research Finds Women Are Advantaged in Being Hired in Academic Science

#28

Post by strikelaserclaw »

nerdchum wrote: post #3

More women than men attend college as well. Women are not however overrepresented in the top 10 most dangerous jobs or the military or the homeless population. A lot of talk about the glass ceiling but none about the glass floor.

Most talk about women and gender equality is region/culture specific. In most of the world, women have a long way to go to achieve equality but in some highly developed countries, i'd say they have it a little bit better overall than men. The problem is men are always judged by what the minority of men do / have, most of the top ten richest people on earth are men? Well lets not forget that most likely the top ten percent of the poorest people are also probably also men, men have higher rates of suicide completion, lower rates of college completion, higher pressure to be a provider, less social support etc... It is great to be a man, provided you are born with high degree of "ability", otherwise you are just one of the "dregs of society".

Re: Research Finds Women Are Advantaged in Being Hired in Academic Science

#29

Post by skizm »

bell-cot wrote: post #15
kramerger wrote: post #6

> tenure-track women are at parity with tenure-track men in three domains (grant funding, journal acceptances, and recommendation letters) and are advantaged over men in a fourth domain (hiring). For teaching ratings and salaries, we found evidence of bias against women So easier to hire but lower salary? Can we call it a draw?

With how poorly academics are paid these days, and the grueling hours they have to work - is "women more readily hired into slave-labor jobs" an advantage for the women, or for the men?

Unfortunately I think academics fall into the category (trap really) of "passion jobs" that are exploited due to the large amount of people willing to take slave wages to "do what they love". It is why video game developers, aerospace engineers, artists, and the like are all paid significantly less than their peers at more "boring" companies/jobs. They'll do the same day to day work, yet work for longer hours and lower pay fueled by the idea that they'll eventually break through some invisible barrier and reach a point where they're just doing the "fun" stuff all day every day.

Re: Research Finds Women Are Advantaged in Being Hired in Academic Science

#30

Post by w0m »

PartiallyTyped wrote: post #22
Daub wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that, but poorly performing students are more likely to be male, whilst excellent students are more likely to be female. This is true across almsot all disaplines.

One of the best suggestions on dealing with this academic discrepancy is having boys take one more year in kindergarten, so that they are one year older than the girls in their grade / year. I'd take this one step further, and claim - from anecdata - that kids should be in quarters, and defer middle school until 6*4 or 7*4 quarters have been reached for girls and boys respectively. My class in highschool, mostly peop…

> having boys take one more year in kindergarten

Functionally doing this with both of my children (though not repeating curriculum) after lots of debating and stress. Adding the expectation into the child's head of being "One of the Smart Ones" seems incredibly powerful moving forward.

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