Live data from Hacker News

Splash screens == sloth

asserttrue.blogspot.com

191–200 of 246 posts

Re: Splash screens == sloth

#191
post #51
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are wrong. Everytime I start Blender (3D content creation suite) I'm blown away by the time it takes to start. Less than 2 seconds! Ready to use! Do I call Blender a complicates program? Yes I do. The feature list can compete with the one of 3ds Max.

I think it's unfair for you to call him wrong, what's wrong with what he said in the context of what he was saying? I remember Blender loading fast as well. But are you sure every single feature of the program is available as soon as the GUI is displayed? Because I wouldn't be surprised if there's some lazy loading going on. Maybe some things finish loading in the background so they are not available right away or ma…

> I remember Blender loading fast as well. But are you sure every single feature of the program is available as soon as the GUI is displayed?

This is exactly the point made in the article...

Re: Splash screens == sloth

#192
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1. I find that extremely annoying. Some times I reopen a window of preview let's say just to close the whole program.

> Some times I reopen a window of preview let's say just to close the whole program. I do not understand what you are saying. Can you elaborate?

Here is a scenario, and my mac is a month old, so maybe I am borrowing heavily from Ubuntu and MS experiences. When I am reading two pdfs, and then close one, it makes sense for the preview menu to stay on because I am reading the second pdf, but when I close the second, what reason is there for preview menu to stay up?

Edit: As to my original comment, when I switch to another app, preview stays open, but up to now I don't know how to close it because I can't get the menu to appear without a pdf or something using it, that's why I reopen a document, forcing the menu to show up, then close the app.

Re: Splash screens == sloth

#193
What a troubled and complex world we live in, when large, complex programs take 5-10 seconds to load.

I'd much rather my devs work on useful features instead of trying to fool me into thinking my productivity suite is loaded a few seconds earlier (and also not dealing with all the bugs that that introduces).

Re: Splash screens == sloth

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds to me like he's either temporarily enraged, or is trying to get fired. The spashscreen does 1 thing, it tells the user that the app is loading and you don't need to click the exe/icon again. His solution to a 5-10 second load time is to provide a fake UI, record phantom mouse clicks, and also give the user a game to play, only makes everything worse. Some apps have to initialize, and without that you are left…

> The spashscreen does 1 thing, it tells the user that the app is loading and you don't need to click the exe/icon again. This is the wrong way to notify. Let its dock icon bounce on (or similar), instead of obscuring the center of the working area on the computer.

Excuse me but I don't see that being possible in Windows In kde it was mac I have no idea but your solution only works in some places.

Re: Splash screens == sloth

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how they would "tailor the application to the specific user's needs" as it would be clearly impractical to develop different versions for each of their millions of customers. Photoshop (for example) is pretty extensible and has support for plugins as well as scripting capabilities etc, not sure what else you want? Also part of the reason that adobe is the industry standard is that their applications are…

> up to speed in a new environment are you assuming that every time a developer switches job, he or she has to learn a new IDE. Life isn't like that. It's not impractical to assume that a user will use a specific subset of all of the tool offerings and doesn't need or use all of what the application has to offer. The app should be able to develop a profile based on what the user actually does with it instead of forci…

The problem is that beforehand you don't necessarily know which features you are going to need to use. I am constantly discovering new useful features in most of the programs I use, having to install plugins for every feature I wanted to use would quickly become a pain , hamper discoverablity and the program would probably just end up back where it started in terms of size.

Besides when you have a program with a long load time, this is not necessarily correlated with the number of features, it's more likely that it's some core part of the program that is taking a good chunk of the initialization time.

The consistency argument is important, especially to anyone who has ever worked on telephone tech support. Being able to give somebody instructions on how to perform an action without having to worry about which of the 1000s of possible configurations their program is in is important. This is probably one of the big reasons desktop Linux never took off.

Most professional programs like IDEs or photoshop are intended to be used by professional users anyway who will be likely to have a reasonably fast computer and will have invested some time in learning to operate the program properly.

Adobe has actually had quite a few competitors over the years, currently there are programs like PixelMator and in the past they have had JASC , Corel, Macromedia (until they bough them) and of course GIMP to contend with.

Joel Spolsky has a good article on this. http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000020.html

Re: Splash screens == sloth

#196
A lot of people here seem to think that complaining about a five to six second start time is just whining. I believe you're wrong -- it is a legitimate and valid complaint and here's why:

Most software can't run for very long. A lot of high-end software can be /very/ unstable (hello, Maya! ;-). The user is not just starting that software once at the beginning of the day for a long productive day of work, they are all to often starting it again after a crash. Or after they shut it down to get enough RAM to run Excel. Or after rebooting Windows for /another/ mandatory update from IT.

I once had to restart a particular high-end compositing package thirty times in an hour. Twenty seconds of the average two minutes were spent staring at the splash screen. But I had to do it, because I needed thirty frames rendered and a particular plugin crashed after running one frame.

The user is not starting your software to admire your credits or the clever graphic design of your logo. They are starting your software to /use/ it get a job done, a job that they have in mind to do and any distraction at all (even a harmless splash screen) is a new stumbling block on their way to resuming their task.

I heard of a study done back in the mainframe days that determined that anything that took less than two seconds felt instantaneous to the user. However, anything longer (even five seconds!) took "forever". In my years of programming, I have found nothing to disprove this (possibly) apocryphal conclusion.

Your user's time is valuable. Your user's mental state and flow are valuable. As programmers on Hacker News, we all know about concentration and flow, right? Extend your users the same courtesy you expect from your tools. Help them keep things going, don't break their rhythm and don't let them lose context.

Re: Splash screens == sloth

#197

Photoshop really is not that complex - you could write a photoshop clone that would load in under a second, easily. But it loads all sorts of stuff you do not need up front - many fonts, textures, drivers for scanners, cameras, and so forth. I think the real problem is that Adobe seems to keep patching an already bloated code base - I think if they started fresh they could redesign it more efficiently...just my humbl…

Pixelmator is pretty much a clone of Photoshop, and it starts seemingly instantly.

Re: Splash screens == sloth

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think of the 100s of millions or even billions of hours of unhappiness caused by whatever utter wanker designed the windows update system. All that misery waiting to go home to your actual life but you can't because your laptop's displaying 'Do not turn off or unplug your computer'. No, just sit here and watch me. Or those times you accidentally opened Word or Photoshop or MySql Workbench (god that's slow) or whateve…

You think they put that notification there to annoy you? No, it's because of possible data loss and/or system file corruption if you turn off the power while the system files are being patched. Splash screens exist because the program is loading. If you want the functionality of Paint, or Notepad, open those instead. If you want Photoshop, you open Photoshop, and it takes a while to load because it is gigantically co…

Surely Windows updates are applied via some sort of transactional system that can be rolled back and re-attempted if the process fails for whatever reason?

Having a power cut during a Windows update shouldn't result in a completely trashed system.

Re: Splash screens == sloth

#200

I don't understand what he's angry about. Photoshop, Microsoft Office, OpenOffice, these are all enormously complicated programs that require resources to load. That doesn't make them bloatware and it doesn't make the programmers lazy. His proposed solution sucks too. Show the UI while it's loading so the user can impotently click around waiting for the program to "turn on". Windows does this when it boots up and it…

You don't write "enormously complicated programs" in the first place, you split big app into small pieces with as little coupling as possible to keep things simple.
Post reply on HN