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San Francisco: An Elitist Bubble Ignoring a Crime Epidemic?

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Re: San Francisco: An Elitist Bubble Ignoring a Crime Epidemic?

#101

Post by forgetfulness »

bluefishinit wrote: post #74
Dig1t wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if you've met a lot of criminals, but many are not committing crimes purely for survival. They want phones, TV's, cars etc. Crime is a way to get those things. If there is no disincentive (i.e. punishment) for committing crime, then many will still do the crime.

I have, and to an instance they come from impoverished and damaged home lives. Often their parents were in prison or extremely poor. People living with dignity will lower crime and make them less antagonistic to those who aren't suffering often generational damage.

Right, but the newer generations that wouldn't be the subject of this under social programs will come under the predation and oppression of those who took on the path of violence if you don't offer them protection; you can't just picture this as poor people stealing luxury goods from tech bros, there's a reason why people who are subject to these things are often friendly to tough-on-crime policies.

Re: San Francisco: An Elitist Bubble Ignoring a Crime Epidemic?

#102

Post by zdragnar »

bluefishinit wrote: post #36
sylens wrote: post #29

You're seeing this everywhere. Chicago, Philadelphia, and so on - although the problem may be worse in San Francisco. Cities are struggling in the post-pandemic era as the rising cost of living due to inflation in food and other essentials has driven more criminal activity, mostly around theft. This is happening at the same time where many cities are also trying more progressive, reform-based approaches to policing a…

> Cities are struggling in the post-pandemic era as the rising cost of living due to inflation in food and other essentials has driven more criminal activity Wouldn't it make more sense and be potentially more cost effective if the focus was on giving people food and other essentials so they could survive without having to steal scooters? Police and prison are super expensive. You're going to be paying for the food,…

There's a lot of people imagining this crime to be Jean Val Jean stealing a loaf of bread to eat. It isn't; much of the crime is committed via organized retail theft. A relatively small handful are disproportionately abusing the system.

The NYPD released some stats awhile back- one of the highest rates of recidivism for an individual in NYC was an offender with 101 arrests, 88 of which were since 2020. Another farther down the list was with 87 total arrests, 25 since 2020, 9 of which include a robbery charge.

Those are just the numbers for two individuals who happen to actually get caught. Most retail theft doesn't end in an arrest. So long as it is profitable to do, and easier than working a job, people will keep doing it. Building more "projects" isn't going to change that.

Re: San Francisco: An Elitist Bubble Ignoring a Crime Epidemic?

#103

Post by calibas »

After living in the Bay Area for a while, I realized there's a class of people who don't really interact with the city the same way "normal" people do. They drive from their private garage or gated community to a parking garage where they work. They rarely touch the sidewalks, and never ride BART or any public transportation.

They exist in this kind of fancy bubble that's separate from the harsh reality of city life.

Re: San Francisco: An Elitist Bubble Ignoring a Crime Epidemic?

#104

Post by Solvency »

buggythebug wrote: post #7
rootusrootus wrote: post #3

> And yet, San Francisco, like other great cities worldwide, has its unique charm and a sense of elitist smugness, a conviction that living here is a coveted opportunity. As a fellow lover of big cities, I respect this attitude. That's quite introspective, and might explain a lot of the commentary on hacker news when urban/suburban/rural discussions come up.

I wouldn't put SF in the great cities list. Maybe it had something back in the 80's or 90's - it's own charm or soul. But for the past 15 year's it's slowly turned into a soulless, charmless, no character city where everyone is in tech and thinks the same. I may be in the miniority on this site - but frankly I think it's sucked for a while now. I've had much better times in other big cities worldwide.

Aside from how SF stacks up in the "great cities" list, many people like myself have a lifelong attraction to the bay area for entirely geographical reasons. It's absolutely gorgeous. The land, the water, the mountains, everything about that region is physically incredible. And those aspects are rather immutable and special.

Re: San Francisco: An Elitist Bubble Ignoring a Crime Epidemic?

#105

Post by vasco »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #46
sylens wrote: post #29

You're seeing this everywhere. Chicago, Philadelphia, and so on - although the problem may be worse in San Francisco. Cities are struggling in the post-pandemic era as the rising cost of living due to inflation in food and other essentials has driven more criminal activity, mostly around theft. This is happening at the same time where many cities are also trying more progressive, reform-based approaches to policing a…

A lot of city residents need to come to terms with the fact that some of these progressive criminal justice reforms may need to be adjusted a bit, given that we now have years of evidence of their effects. And/or: We need to make affordable housing available, make a car-optional lifestyle more viable, etc. "The beatings shall continue until morale improves" isn't an effective approach to anything, especially since if…

> The beatings shall continue until morale improves

Sure beatings don't improve morale, but since we're not talking about improving the morale of thieves, but rather about making theft a losing proposition, I think the point is not as invalid as you frame it. Unless your point is that there's no advantage in creating consequences for crime because you don't think negative consequences have a deterring effect, which is not something I agree with. Surely you have been put in time-out by your parents or gotten a toy taken away which illustrated this point for you.

Re: San Francisco: An Elitist Bubble Ignoring a Crime Epidemic?

#106

Post by not_the_fda »

ajkjk wrote: post #65
sylens wrote: post #29

You're seeing this everywhere. Chicago, Philadelphia, and so on - although the problem may be worse in San Francisco. Cities are struggling in the post-pandemic era as the rising cost of living due to inflation in food and other essentials has driven more criminal activity, mostly around theft. This is happening at the same time where many cities are also trying more progressive, reform-based approaches to policing a…

> You're seeing this everywhere. Chicago, Philadelphia, and so on - although the problem may be worse in San Francisco I don't think this is true at all? Where are you getting this statistic? San Francisco (and a few other west coast cities) are the only ones in the country I've been to that feel _dramatically_ worse with each passing year.

Philly is a literally a city of zombies that will stab you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl0fDm7HSQ0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi1Kf-1qd6Y

Re: San Francisco: An Elitist Bubble Ignoring a Crime Epidemic?

#107

Post by frumper »

AlbertCory wrote: post #53
uoaei wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, welcome to the conversation, I can tell this is the first time you've engaged with this topic, so I'd love to introduce you to the economic dynamics at play. When property taxes don't rise, people are disincentivized from selling their home because if they buy a new home they must pay property taxes at the new rate, not the grandfathered one. This creates a bottlenecked supply of housing because no one sells. Gro…

Do a little research. If you move in CA and you're over 55, you can now keep your property tax bill. Previously it was only certain counties that honored that; now it's all of them. https://www.financialplannerla.com/transfer-california-prope... > All because they happened to have bought a home before this law passed. Again, do some research. Prop 13 passed in 1978, 45 years ago. The number of current homeowners who…

We bought our house 9 years ago. Current homebuyers on our street are paying 2 to 3 times what we are in taxes for similar homes. Add in our extremely low interest rate and we have no plans to sell the home even if we buy another.

Re: San Francisco: An Elitist Bubble Ignoring a Crime Epidemic?

#108

Post by aeturnum »

I find this blog odd because I think people in SF are very aware of the property crime problem? But like...because there's a property crime problem no one is shocked that you experienced property crime?

I think part of this is that there is a parallel discourse about crime "in general" shooting up in SF which is not supported by any data. But the bay has long had unusually bad crime of this kind - which is to say car break ins, motorcycle and bike theft, etc. So if you complain "about crime" sometimes people think you're new and don't know about this long standing problem that seems hard to fix (which is obviously bad but also kind of old news) - or they think you're talking about this other supposed trend that the data doesn't really back up.

Re: San Francisco: An Elitist Bubble Ignoring a Crime Epidemic?

#110

Post by chucksta »

ajkjk wrote: post #65
sylens wrote: post #29

You're seeing this everywhere. Chicago, Philadelphia, and so on - although the problem may be worse in San Francisco. Cities are struggling in the post-pandemic era as the rising cost of living due to inflation in food and other essentials has driven more criminal activity, mostly around theft. This is happening at the same time where many cities are also trying more progressive, reform-based approaches to policing a…

> You're seeing this everywhere. Chicago, Philadelphia, and so on - although the problem may be worse in San Francisco I don't think this is true at all? Where are you getting this statistic? San Francisco (and a few other west coast cities) are the only ones in the country I've been to that feel _dramatically_ worse with each passing year.

https://www.axios.com/local/philadelphia/2023/03/28/philadel...

Philly violent crime is down against last year but still ranks in recent highs

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