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San Francisco: An Elitist Bubble Ignoring a Crime Epidemic?

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Re: San Francisco: An Elitist Bubble Ignoring a Crime Epidemic?

#61

Post by legitster »

f1yght wrote: post #28
fundad wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are in denial about aging out of city living.

Why would you age out of having amenities closer to you? If anything, as you get older things should be even closer.

Kids. You will value space much more than you value proximity to restaurants.

Also, the amenities available in a city are quite limited as you age out of your 20s. Food and necessities become a much smaller share of what you are purchasing. Eventually you want access to tools and hobby supplies and home goods - stuff that is logistically not hauled into big cities but dropped off in the suburbs.

Re: San Francisco: An Elitist Bubble Ignoring a Crime Epidemic?

#62

Post by vinaypai »

sylens wrote: post #29

You're seeing this everywhere. Chicago, Philadelphia, and so on - although the problem may be worse in San Francisco. Cities are struggling in the post-pandemic era as the rising cost of living due to inflation in food and other essentials has driven more criminal activity, mostly around theft. This is happening at the same time where many cities are also trying more progressive, reform-based approaches to policing a…

I don't think the cost of living has anything to do with it. There was a huge boom in delivery services during the pandemic, and rapid transition from bicycles to far more valuable electric scooters. There's just far more opportunity for theft.

Re: San Francisco: An Elitist Bubble Ignoring a Crime Epidemic?

#63

Post by apsurd »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #32
ethbr0 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People move to a city because they want to be more like the people who already live there. But if too many move in too fast, the city instead becomes like them.

No, most people move to a city for a job - not because they think the average person that lives there is some aspirational target. SF had an abundance of jobs that paid a boat load of money, and people moved there to take those jobs. Not because it's close to Muir Woods and has the best weather in the world, and the people at cafes wear cool t-shirts (although nearly everyone who moves to SF tries their hardest to co…

What?

I know we're talking about SF but the LA example is much more obviously clear: so everyone in LA _is actually in entertainment_ when they move? The servers and baristas went there "for the job" as a server and barista, but also acting, of which they already have well paying jobs in? I'm not even making sense to myself. Point is, absolutely... there's an aspirational part to moving to a big city, and yes they move for the weather, and yes they move to be closer to nature.

Re: San Francisco: An Elitist Bubble Ignoring a Crime Epidemic?

#64

Post by AYBABTME »

ethbr0 wrote: post #14
buggythebug wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't put SF in the great cities list. Maybe it had something back in the 80's or 90's - it's own charm or soul. But for the past 15 year's it's slowly turned into a soulless, charmless, no character city where everyone is in tech and thinks the same. I may be in the miniority on this site - but frankly I think it's sucked for a while now. I've had much better times in other big cities worldwide.

People move to a city because they want to be more like the people who already live there. But if too many move in too fast, the city instead becomes like them.

SF also refused to adapt. Poor public transportation, extremely low building height.

Re: San Francisco: An Elitist Bubble Ignoring a Crime Epidemic?

#65

Post by ajkjk »

sylens wrote: post #29

You're seeing this everywhere. Chicago, Philadelphia, and so on - although the problem may be worse in San Francisco. Cities are struggling in the post-pandemic era as the rising cost of living due to inflation in food and other essentials has driven more criminal activity, mostly around theft. This is happening at the same time where many cities are also trying more progressive, reform-based approaches to policing a…

> You're seeing this everywhere. Chicago, Philadelphia, and so on - although the problem may be worse in San Francisco

I don't think this is true at all? Where are you getting this statistic?

San Francisco (and a few other west coast cities) are the only ones in the country I've been to that feel _dramatically_ worse with each passing year.

Re: San Francisco: An Elitist Bubble Ignoring a Crime Epidemic?

#66

Post by marstall »

I lived in SF in the late '90s and saw many of the same things people have been posting about here lately .

Tweakers on every corner in the Tenderloin, intense/overwhelming-at-times homeless presence in the blocks near Mission and lower Market ... latino gangs operating in the blocks south of 14th ...

I heard gunshots fired in my neighborhood (24th street) on two occasions.

Anybody here experienced SF then and now? Is it really worse now?

Re: San Francisco: An Elitist Bubble Ignoring a Crime Epidemic?

#67

Post by dogmayor »

sylens wrote: post #29

You're seeing this everywhere. Chicago, Philadelphia, and so on - although the problem may be worse in San Francisco. Cities are struggling in the post-pandemic era as the rising cost of living due to inflation in food and other essentials has driven more criminal activity, mostly around theft. This is happening at the same time where many cities are also trying more progressive, reform-based approaches to policing a…

You won't get "briefly detained and released the next day" if you're caught doing the same thing every other night. And the sentence you receive in the end will be far more severe than if you only committed the one initial offense. Penalties and fines will likely erase any money you made on other nights. And oh maybe an investigation is opened to find out who has taken all these scooters, now that 50% of the time you don't get caught in the act means little seeing that you're just getting caught after the fact.

*spelling edits

Re: San Francisco: An Elitist Bubble Ignoring a Crime Epidemic?

#68

Post by munificent »

sylens wrote: post #29

You're seeing this everywhere. Chicago, Philadelphia, and so on - although the problem may be worse in San Francisco. Cities are struggling in the post-pandemic era as the rising cost of living due to inflation in food and other essentials has driven more criminal activity, mostly around theft. This is happening at the same time where many cities are also trying more progressive, reform-based approaches to policing a…

> A lot of city residents need to come to terms with the fact that some of these progressive criminal justice reforms may need to be adjusted a bit, given that we now have years of evidence of their effects.

Or we need progressive economic reforms to go with them.

You can avoid property crime two ways:

1. Massive police power that brutally punishes anyone who does it so that the incentives are always against it.

2. Create an economic environment where acquiring sufficient resources through legitimate means is easier and more rewarding than through crime.

For the past 50 years, the US has gotten worse and worse at #2 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_Unite...). We could turn the country into a police state and go all in on #1.

But a much better world to live in is one where we focus on fixing #2.

Re: San Francisco: An Elitist Bubble Ignoring a Crime Epidemic?

#69

Post by sylens »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #46
sylens wrote: post #29

You're seeing this everywhere. Chicago, Philadelphia, and so on - although the problem may be worse in San Francisco. Cities are struggling in the post-pandemic era as the rising cost of living due to inflation in food and other essentials has driven more criminal activity, mostly around theft. This is happening at the same time where many cities are also trying more progressive, reform-based approaches to policing a…

A lot of city residents need to come to terms with the fact that some of these progressive criminal justice reforms may need to be adjusted a bit, given that we now have years of evidence of their effects. And/or: We need to make affordable housing available, make a car-optional lifestyle more viable, etc. "The beatings shall continue until morale improves" isn't an effective approach to anything, especially since if…

Notice I am not advocating for a complete reversal of these reform-based approaches - I said they need to be adjusted a bit. It is unlikely anything is done 100% correctly on the first attempt, and we are seeing firsthand that there needs to be some further disincentive for so brazenly committing crimes of theft in these areas

Re: San Francisco: An Elitist Bubble Ignoring a Crime Epidemic?

#70

Post by AYBABTME »

fundad wrote: post #9
rootusrootus wrote: post #3

> And yet, San Francisco, like other great cities worldwide, has its unique charm and a sense of elitist smugness, a conviction that living here is a coveted opportunity. As a fellow lover of big cities, I respect this attitude. That's quite introspective, and might explain a lot of the commentary on hacker news when urban/suburban/rural discussions come up.

People are in denial about aging out of city living.

Maybe in America, but I don't think this trend is true elsewhere. Cities are very convenient (and safe) for families and elders in many countries.
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