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Ask HN: Is it just me or GPT-4's quality has significantly deteriorated lately?

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Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or GPT-4's quality has significantly deteriorated lately?

#591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I think it's plausible it's gotten worse but it would also be classic human psychology to perceive degradation because you start noticing flaws after the honeymoon effect wore off. Unfortunately this will be hard to benchmark unless someone was already collecting a lot of data on ChatGPT responses for other purposes. Perhaps if this is happening the degradation will get worse though, so someone noticing it now c…

Yes, that's an obvious complication, but it isn't the fault of the humans given that the model can easily be tuned without your knowledge to subjectively perform worse, and there's an obvious incentive for it (compute cost).

Yeah I fully agree about compute cost, though I wonder why they don't just introduce another payment tier. If people are really using it at work as much as claimed online, it would be much preferable to be able to pay more for the full original performance, which seems win/win.

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or GPT-4's quality has significantly deteriorated lately?

#592

OpenAI's models feel 100% nerfed to me at this point. I had it solving incredibly complex problems a few months ago (i.e. write a minimal PDF parser example), but today you will get scolded for asking such a complicated task of it. I think they programmed a classifier layer to detect certain coding tasks and shut it down with canned BS. I like to imagine certain billion/trillion-dollar mega corps had a back-room say…

So far my experience with Vicunlocked30b has been pleasant. https://huggingface.co/TheBloke/VicUnlocked-30B-LoRA-GGML Although I haven't had much of my time available for this recently. My recommendation would be to start with https://github.com/oobabooga/text-generation-webui You will find almost everything you need to know there and on 4chan.org/g/catalog - search for LMG.

How much VRAM does that model need? I'm looking for a 30B byte that I can train a LORA with on an GTX 4090.

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or GPT-4's quality has significantly deteriorated lately?

#593
I thought it was just me that had this impression. I used to be able to work with 4.0 to get it iterate through some rewriting (I write text, it rewrites for clarity (I tend to write densely), but it keeps losing the important nuances that I want it to keep

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or GPT-4's quality has significantly deteriorated lately?

#594
post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Multiple one-shot prompts with no history. I don't have the exact prompt handy but it was something like "Create a short biography of a family, summarizing each person's age and personality". I just ran that prompt 3 times (no history, new sessions, that prompt for first query) and got: 1. Hard-working father, stay at home mother, artistic daughter, adventurous son, empathic ballet-loving daughter 2. Busy architect f…

I agree that this is a good illustration of model bias (adding that to my growing list of demos). If you want to work around the inherent bias of the model, there are certainly prompt engineering tricks that can help. "Give me twenty short biographies of families - each one should summarize the family members, their age and their personalities. Be sure to represent different types of family." That started spitting ou…

Agreed -- I ultimately moved to a two-step approach of just generating the couples first with something like "Create a list of 10 plausible American couples and briefly summarize their relationships", and then feeding each of those back in for more details on the whole family.

The funny thing is the gentle nudge got me over-representation of gay couples, and my methodology prevented any single-parent families from being generated. But for that project's purpose it was good enough.

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or GPT-4's quality has significantly deteriorated lately?

#595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you expand on the last sentence of your first paragraph?

Crime stats, average IQ across groups, stereotype accuracy, etc. What's interesting to me is not the above, which is naughty in the anglosphere, but the question of the unknown unknowns that could be as bad or worse in other cultural contexts. There are probably enough people of Indian descent involved in GPT's development that they could guide it past some of the caste landmines, but what about a country like Turkey…

> Crime stats, average IQ across groups, stereotype accuracy, etc.

If you measured these stats for Irish Americans in 1865 you'd also see high crime and low IQ. If you measure these stats with recent black immigrants from Africa, you see low crime and high IQ.

These statistical differences are not caused by race. An all-knowing oracle wouldn't need to hold "opinions that are racist" to understand them.

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or GPT-4's quality has significantly deteriorated lately?

#596
post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't confuse alignment with censorship. Most of alignment is about getting the AI model to be useful - ensuring that if you ask it to do something it will do the thing you asked it to do. A completely unaligned model would be virtually useless.

I think the way people have been using the word 'aligned' is usually in the context of moral alignment and not just RLHF for instruction following.

philosophical nit picking here, I would say value-aligned rather than moral-aligned.

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or GPT-4's quality has significantly deteriorated lately?

#597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> suicidal sociopaths will be able to get extremely well informed, intelligent directions on how to kill as many people as possible Citizens killing other citizens is the least of humanities issues. It's the governments who are the suicidal sociopaths historically who can get the un-nerfed version that is the bigger issue. Over a billion people murdered by governments/factions and their wars in the last 120 years alo…

Governments are composed of citizens; this is the same problem at a different scale. The point remains that racing to stand up an open source uncensored version of GPT-4 is a dangerous proposition.

As dangerous as teaching kids to read/write, allowing books, companies creating pen/paper that allow any words written.

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or GPT-4's quality has significantly deteriorated lately?

#598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is GPT 3.5, the icon is green

no it's definitely GPT4. I'm not sure why the share page says "Model: Default" but it's "Model: GPT-4" in my webui. Seems like a bug in the share feature

Maybe they're actually using GPT-3 but tell you it's GPT-4...

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or GPT-4's quality has significantly deteriorated lately?

#599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How feasible would it be out crowdsource the training? I.e. thousands of individual macbooks training a small part of the model and contributing to the collective goal

Currently, not at all. You need low latency, high bandwidth links between the GPUs to be able to shard the model usefully. There is no way you can fit an 1T (or whatever) parameter model on a MacBook, or any current device, so sharding is a requirement. Even if it that problem disappeared, propagating the model weight updates between training steps poses an issue in itself. It's a lot of data, at this size.

You could easily fit a 1T parameter model on a MacBook if you radically altered the architecture of the AI system.

Consider something like a spiking neural network with weights & state stored on an SSD using lazy-evaluation as action potentials propagate. 4TB SSD = ~1 trillion 32-bit FP weights and potentials. There are MacBook options that support up to 8TB. The other advantage with SNN - Training & using are basically the same thing. You don't have to move any bytes around. They just get mutated in place over time.

The trick is to reorganize this damn thing so you don't have to access all of the parameters at the same time... You may also find the GPU becomes a problem in an approach that uses a latency-sensitive time domain and/or event-based execution. It gets to be pretty difficult to process hundreds of millions of serialized action potentials per second when your hot loop has to go outside of L1 and screw with GPU memory. GPU isn't that far away, but ~2 nanoseconds is a hell of a lot closer than 30-100+ nanoseconds.

Edit: fixed my crappy math above.

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or GPT-4's quality has significantly deteriorated lately?

#600

OpenAI's models feel 100% nerfed to me at this point. I had it solving incredibly complex problems a few months ago (i.e. write a minimal PDF parser example), but today you will get scolded for asking such a complicated task of it. I think they programmed a classifier layer to detect certain coding tasks and shut it down with canned BS. I like to imagine certain billion/trillion-dollar mega corps had a back-room say…

> I like to imagine certain billion/trillion-dollar mega corps had a back-room say regarding things that they would really prefer OpenAI's models not be able to emit. Microsoft is a big stakeholder and they might not want to get sued... Liability could explain a lot of it.

I don't think it's any of these things.

OpenAI and the company I work for have a very similar problem: the workload shape and size for a query, isn't strictly determined by any analytically-derivable rule regarding any "query compile-time"-recognizable element of the query; but rather is determined by the shape of connected data found during initial steps of something that can be modelled as a graph search, done inside the query. Where, for efficiency, that search must be done "in-engine", fused to the rest of the query — rather than being separated out and done first on its own, such that its results could be legible to the "query planner."

This paradigm means that, for any arbitrary query you haven't seen before, you can't "predict spend" for that query — not just in the sense of charging the user, but also in the sense that you don't know how much capacity you'll have to reserve in order to be able to schedule the query and have it successfully run to completion.

Which means that sometimes, innocuous-looking queries come in, that totally bowl over your backend. They suck up all the resources you have, and run super-long, and maybe eventually spit out an answer (if they don't OOM the query-runner worker process first)... but often this answer takes so long that the user doesn't even want it any more. (Think: IDE autocomplete.) In fact, maybe the user got annoyed, and refreshed the app; and since you can't control exactly how people integrate with your API, maybe that refresh caused a second, third, Nth request for the same heavyweight query!

What do you do in this situation? Well, what we did, is to make a block-list of specific data-values for parameters of queries, that we have previously observed to cause our backend to fall over. Not because we don't want to serve these queries, but because we know we'll predictably fail to serve these queries within the constraints that would make them useful to anyone — so we may as well not spend the energy trying, to preserve query capacity for everyone else. (For us, one of those constraints is a literal time-limit: we're behind Cloudflare, and so if we take longer than 100s to respond to a [synchronous HTTP] API call, then Cloudflare disconnects and sends the client a 524 error.)

"A block-list of specific data-values for parameters of queries" probably won't work for OpenAI — but I imagine that if they trained a text-classifier AI on what input text would predictably result in timeout errors in their backend, they could probably achieve something similar.

In short: their query-planner probably has a spam filter.

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