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EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

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Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#151

Post by yogthos »

The_Colonel wrote: post #145
yogthos wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CNN article I linked in another disagrees with you.

The CNN article doesn't mention natural gas at all.

Russia's April gas exports to Europe up 7.5% from March, and as statistica link shows, Europe is nowhere close to cutting off Russian gas. The whole narrative that EU is independent from Russian fossil fuels is just fake news.

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/russias-april-gas-ex...

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1306522/key-importers-of...

Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#152

Post by yogthos »

The_Colonel wrote: post #143
yogthos wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't the Russians arguing, this is mainstream western pres saying this.

Hand-picked to fit your agenda. No need to link the sources which disagree, right? Also, this link selection is provided by a Russian, so the point still stands.

The only person with an agenda here is the one who keep using ad hominem attacks instead of providing any actual arguments. The reality is that the economic war has gone on for nearly two years now, and so far there is no sign of Russian economy collapsing. The sources I've provided come from mainstream western publications which are openly hostile to Russia, and they explain in black and white why the economic war has failed. I guess some people just aren't capable of engaging with reality.

Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#153

Post by yogthos »

The_Colonel wrote: post #150
yogthos wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess we'll see won't we. However, it's pretty obvious that Russia is doing massive amounts of trade with China and India. Trade between China and Russia has already reached over 200 billion this year. So, not really sure what this notion that Russian economy is collapsing is based on to be honest.

> However, it's pretty obvious that Russia is doing massive amounts of trade with China and India. For sure India and China are eager to exploit the very unequal relationship where Russia now needs India and China much more than the opposite. The Russian economy is not collapsing, but I'm pretty sure it's hurting. Even if we had real GDP figures, they'd be misleading as now a significant part of the GDP is coming fro…

This is just wild speculation that's completely baseless I'm afraid. We've literally been hearing this story for nearly two years now, and there is zero substantive evidence to support any of these assertions.

Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#154

Post by yogthos »

kstenerud wrote: post #105
radiator wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your rather long post, you did not mention the fact that Russia refuses to sell oil to any country which applies the price cap. I wonder, is this really not relevant for your analysis?

It doesn't help Russia. The end result is the same: A smaller pool of customers and an anchored price for the remaining customers. In fact, Russia had to reduce their output because they refuse to sell it to countries that participate in the price cap and there isn't enough demand otherwise (also most of their flow goes west through the now mostly idle pipelines to Europe - It's MUCH harder to move oil east or south…

That's just factually wrong I'm afraid https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/14/energy/russia-oil-exports-iea...

Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#155

Post by The_Colonel »

yogthos wrote: post #152
The_Colonel wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hand-picked to fit your agenda. No need to link the sources which disagree, right? Also, this link selection is provided by a Russian, so the point still stands.

The only person with an agenda here is the one who keep using ad hominem attacks instead of providing any actual arguments. The reality is that the economic war has gone on for nearly two years now, and so far there is no sign of Russian economy collapsing. The sources I've provided come from mainstream western publications which are openly hostile to Russia, and they explain in black and white why the economic war h…

A person without an agenda would surely link also links which provide a different POV:

* https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/12/01/ukraine-russia-sanction...

* https://www.intereconomics.eu/contents/year/2023/number/1/ar...

* https://www.csis.org/analysis/russia-sanctions-one-year

Nobody claims the sanctions are perfect. Sometimes there are holes which need to be plugged. There are some other areas which should be sanctioned.

The West should of course work on making the sanctions harder hitting.

Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#156

Post by The_Colonel »

yogthos wrote: post #153
The_Colonel wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, it's pretty obvious that Russia is doing massive amounts of trade with China and India. For sure India and China are eager to exploit the very unequal relationship where Russia now needs India and China much more than the opposite. The Russian economy is not collapsing, but I'm pretty sure it's hurting. Even if we had real GDP figures, they'd be misleading as now a significant part of the GDP is coming fro…

This is just wild speculation that's completely baseless I'm afraid. We've literally been hearing this story for nearly two years now, and there is zero substantive evidence to support any of these assertions.

It's just basic economics. India and China have a bigger leverage, it would be stupid of them to not use it.

I mean, what's the alternative explanation of why India increased the Russian oil imports tenfold? It's not because of good will, it's because India can suddenly import Russian oil much cheaper than before. Why does Russia sell oil cheaper to India? Because it won't find another such big customer.

Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#157

Post by The_Colonel »

yogthos wrote: post #151
The_Colonel wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CNN article doesn't mention natural gas at all.

Russia's April gas exports to Europe up 7.5% from March, and as statistica link shows, Europe is nowhere close to cutting off Russian gas. The whole narrative that EU is independent from Russian fossil fuels is just fake news. https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/russias-april-gas-ex... https://www.statista.com/statistics/1306522/key-importers-of...

> The whole narrative that EU is independent from Russian fossil fuels is just fake news.

I agree with you on that one. It's a longer project to become independent of Russian energy completely and we're not there yet. But the level of dependence dropped sharply since last year.

Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#158

Post by yogthos »

The_Colonel wrote: post #156
yogthos wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just wild speculation that's completely baseless I'm afraid. We've literally been hearing this story for nearly two years now, and there is zero substantive evidence to support any of these assertions.

It's just basic economics. India and China have a bigger leverage, it would be stupid of them to not use it. I mean, what's the alternative explanation of why India increased the Russian oil imports tenfold? It's not because of good will, it's because India can suddenly import Russian oil much cheaper than before. Why does Russia sell oil cheaper to India? Because it won't find another such big customer.

Basic economics say that Russia is a major commodity exporter and that as long as there is global demand for these commodities then Russia will have no problem selling them. It's like you don't understand how basic supply and demand works. India gets a great deal because it can buy oil from Russia at a slight discount and then resell it to Europe at a large markup. The loser here isn't Russia but Europe.

Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#159

Post by kstenerud »

yogthos wrote: post #154
kstenerud wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't help Russia. The end result is the same: A smaller pool of customers and an anchored price for the remaining customers. In fact, Russia had to reduce their output because they refuse to sell it to countries that participate in the price cap and there isn't enough demand otherwise (also most of their flow goes west through the now mostly idle pipelines to Europe - It's MUCH harder to move oil east or south…

That's just factually wrong I'm afraid https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/14/energy/russia-oil-exports-iea...

"That's just factually wrong I'm afraid"

This kind of response is incredibly rude.

So it looks like their production has since gone up, a lot (after dropping mid last year). Profits are still down because nobody's paying full price.

https://www.euronews.com/2023/05/31/russian-oil-exports-are-...

Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#160

Post by aziaziazi »

lostlogin wrote: post #87
aziaziazi wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More precisely : terrorist state not on your side . Many countries are considered terrorist states in all sides of the world, including France, UK, Spain, Israel, Saudi Arabia and of course USA. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_terrorism

Go easy on France, they’ve only come down here and attacked us in New Zealand that one time.

C’mon, it can’t be the french for military reasons! Probably the MI16! No, the Russians! No, an outsider! No, the far rights! No, Caledonian Barbouzes!

Mmmh finally that was the Frenchs…

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