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Plane: Open-Source Alternative to Jira

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Re: Plane: Open-Source Alternative to Jira

#161

Post by mark_and_sweep »

bipson wrote: post #155

The Problem with Jira is not that it's dumb or too sophisticated. The first problem is that everyone, even in the same team or org, needs something different from it. Sometimes it is even single individuals needing one particular thing one time, and the same day for another workflow or view another thing. It is when Jira caters to the wrong use case for you right now where the a lot of frustration arises. In a simila…

The biggest issue, in my experience, has always been its performance. Perhaps I have only worked in organisations that have completely misconfigured their Jira instances or the servers are underpowered, but even with the Atlassian Cloud, I am used to waiting 10 seconds to move a ticket from one column to another. Or add a ticket to the backlog, click the backlog, ticket isn't there yet, refresh the backlog, it's there. Add a ticket to the sprint, click the sprint view, ticket isn't there. Refresh the sprint view, it's there. This sh*t. Every day. Is driving me insane.

I don't want the perfect tool, just one that isn't horrendous.

Re: Plane: Open-Source Alternative to Jira

#162

Post by marginalia_nu »

bipson wrote: post #155

The Problem with Jira is not that it's dumb or too sophisticated. The first problem is that everyone, even in the same team or org, needs something different from it. Sometimes it is even single individuals needing one particular thing one time, and the same day for another workflow or view another thing. It is when Jira caters to the wrong use case for you right now where the a lot of frustration arises. In a simila…

Yeah I agree with the problem description. I've seen several times Jira becoming co-opted into a sort of potemkin village where official progress is reported for customers/nervous bosses/reports upstairs, where every wording is carefully chosen as to not raise questions and sometimes tasks and progress is invented to create the appearance of smooth operations; meanwhile the need for actual tracking and planning is done offline on post-its or over email, away from prying eyes.

Re: Plane: Open-Source Alternative to Jira

#163

Post by marcus_holmes »

Tainnor wrote: post #119
marcus_holmes wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem I see is that Jira encourages "management by looking at Jira" - effectively Jira becomes a second source of truth that is unconnected and unconstrained by the actual truth (the code). Jira acquires state that has to be carefully maintained as a separate operation by the developers to keep Jira's state in sync with the actual state of the project. Since most of the organisation are looking at Jira, the eff…

The code itself doesn't even contain much of the information relevant to coders, you'd have to also look at the git repo, its history, its commits, etc. The code, or the repo, however are in most cases not the source of truth for a business roadmap, prioritisation discussions, estimation, customer feedback, bug reports, and so on. It's a myopic view to only look at the code without any of its context and conclude tha…

I've noticed it particularly with outsource teams where the communication is difficult. The team update tickets with what management expect, not what code has actually been written.

Re: Plane: Open-Source Alternative to Jira

#164

Post by logicchains »

zelphirkalt wrote: post #158
bipson wrote: post #155

The Problem with Jira is not that it's dumb or too sophisticated. The first problem is that everyone, even in the same team or org, needs something different from it. Sometimes it is even single individuals needing one particular thing one time, and the same day for another workflow or view another thing. It is when Jira caters to the wrong use case for you right now where the a lot of frustration arises. In a simila…

Catering to many different kinds of people explains some of the bad stuff, but it does not explain, why seemingly every single Atlassian product including Jira sucks at parsing Markdown or supporting Markdown well. In the big picture maybe some things suffer from catering to too many audiences, but in the small, it is just lack of good engineering. Basically any markdown parser you can install at no cost and even wit…

>it does not explain, why seemingly every single Atlassian product including Jira sucks at parsing Markdown or supporting Markdown well.

Australian here, I can provide some clarity on that. Australians in general are fairly lazy; we like to do the bare minimum necessary to get the job done so we can knock off work and grab a beer at 4pm. Atlassian is an Australian company, and has generally inherited such an approach, so there's little tolerance for putting extra effort into things like adding the finishing touches to markdown parsing or improving performance (or even preventing it from regressing).

Re: Plane: Open-Source Alternative to Jira

#165

Post by marcus_holmes »

superice wrote: post #141
Tainnor wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're describing looks like magic to me. How would your ticket system know, without it being told (in some way, e.g. through backreferences from the tests), that a particular feature has been implemented? That's very likely going to be a formally undecidable problem.

Writing end-to-end UI tests to validate a certain behavior and then automatically resolving a ticket once those tests pass seems really cool though. Not sure how realistic in practice, but it's definitely an interesting concept.

yeah, something like TDD but the ticket is actually a set of integration or end-to-end tests that must pass for the ticket to be "done". Hmmm, interesting...

edit: actually, thinking about it, you could do plain TDD and track the tests as the tickets. Write all your tests for the project first, then track how many are passing as the progress measure.

Re: Plane: Open-Source Alternative to Jira

#167

Post by skinkestek »

logicchains wrote: post #164
zelphirkalt wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Catering to many different kinds of people explains some of the bad stuff, but it does not explain, why seemingly every single Atlassian product including Jira sucks at parsing Markdown or supporting Markdown well. In the big picture maybe some things suffer from catering to too many audiences, but in the small, it is just lack of good engineering. Basically any markdown parser you can install at no cost and even wit…

>it does not explain, why seemingly every single Atlassian product including Jira sucks at parsing Markdown or supporting Markdown well. Australian here, I can provide some clarity on that. Australians in general are fairly lazy; we like to do the bare minimum necessary to get the job done so we can knock off work and grab a beer at 4pm. Atlassian is an Australian company, and has generally inherited such an approach…

> or even preventing it from regressing

Here they are in good company with Google.

Re: Plane: Open-Source Alternative to Jira

#168

Post by skinkestek »

raverbashing wrote: post #159
bipson wrote: post #155

The Problem with Jira is not that it's dumb or too sophisticated. The first problem is that everyone, even in the same team or org, needs something different from it. Sometimes it is even single individuals needing one particular thing one time, and the same day for another workflow or view another thing. It is when Jira caters to the wrong use case for you right now where the a lot of frustration arises. In a simila…

I agree these are issues But having a jquery frontend experience with a single-threaded backend system doesn't do it any favours ;)

Is this true?

Re: Plane: Open-Source Alternative to Jira

#170

Post by [deleted] »

logicchains wrote: post #164
zelphirkalt wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Catering to many different kinds of people explains some of the bad stuff, but it does not explain, why seemingly every single Atlassian product including Jira sucks at parsing Markdown or supporting Markdown well. In the big picture maybe some things suffer from catering to too many audiences, but in the small, it is just lack of good engineering. Basically any markdown parser you can install at no cost and even wit…

>it does not explain, why seemingly every single Atlassian product including Jira sucks at parsing Markdown or supporting Markdown well. Australian here, I can provide some clarity on that. Australians in general are fairly lazy; we like to do the bare minimum necessary to get the job done so we can knock off work and grab a beer at 4pm. Atlassian is an Australian company, and has generally inherited such an approach…

[deleted]
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