171–180 of 200 posts
> this salary wouldn't attract strong talent even in medium cost-of-living countries (like portugal/spain). median salary for a developer in Spain is $30,000 a year[1], so 50-80k would easily place them in the upper 10% of the scale. I think americans need to really reflect on how inflated american dev salaries are. [1] https://www.payscale.com/research/ES/Job=Software_Developer/...
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That is ridiculous. What SWEs get paid is not dissimilar to what pilots and engineers get paid (with experience) in the US. People get paid what it costs to replace them. You're just trying to justify SV "enterpreneur" greed with that logic. If you can pay someone 10k/yr in the US you probably would even with a $20M valuation and 10 person head count. The insane SV valuations are also unheard of and all these marvelo…
You're making so many incoherent disconnected points that I'm not sure what you're actually trying to say.
Pay tax or pay really good wages.
To @pokepim whom I can't reply to because the comment is dead: nah, I am not even a developer and your skills are irrelevant, your replacabilith in the market is all that matters. These companies raise insane capital, get insane tax benefits and cuts and the lowest taxes and most lax employment laws in the developed world and also want to bitch about 200k salaries in places where median house costs are in the millions. If vietnam devs are so good, I am sure vietnam (or any country) will have amazing companies that raise crazy valuations and pay them good enough to afford a house to live in?! Right? Tell mee when I can save 50% of 20k/yr in the US and buy a house in the US? In cali I would have to save for like 100 years lol. I am all for outsourcing if it means houses and other CoL in the US will have the same prices as the places outsourcers live at.
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If it's anything like Sweden, working as a permanent employee for a company in the Netherlands with that salary also gets you relatively high job security, pension contributions, 6-8 weeks off a year, unlimited sick leave, sometimes a collective agreement with guaranteed pay bumps or bonuses, often additional wellness allowances, etc. Some companies employ through a local entity which gets you some or all of those sa…
Side question: Do people typically get to use all those weeks off? I get 5 weeks off, but it's incredibly difficult to still hit my deadlines if I take any days off.
In my experience almost everybody uses their vacation days in NL.
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>I think americans need to really reflect on how inflated american dev salaries are. Or maybe people everywhere else need to really reflect on how underpaid they are. It’s not like the revenue of tech companies is lower outside of the US, so why isn’t more of it ending up in developers’ pockets, where it should go?
> It’s not like the revenue of tech companies is lower outside of the US, so why isn’t more of it ending up in developers’ pockets, where it should go? What you're forgetting is that taxes differ quite a lot from country to country. That, and cost of living is a factor too. If food and housing costs half as much, then even though you're paid less, you're not really poorer for it. I think many American developers are…
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You're making so many incoherent disconnected points that I'm not sure what you're actually trying to say.
Alright, then let me rephrase it simply: SWE should be getting paid as much as they can collectively negotiate and companies who already get the best tax deals should tuck their tails between their legs and be happy about it. I don't care what people get paid in random places, it has absolutley no relevance other than govs should not allow a company to profit in their country if it is not offering competitive salarie…
I'm very happy with $x. I don't really care what a SV person gets. Thats irrelevant to me and makes zero impact on my standard if living. If $x is smaller than a US salary then the employer is happy too.
Once employers figure out your job can be done remotely (something the WFH cohort are bending over backwards to do) they'll discover the global labour pool is huge. And astonishingly smart. And speak good English. And are prepared to work US time zones.
Salaries are willing buyer, willing seller. If your salary offer of $60k puts me easily in the top 1% of salaries in my country, then I'll take it, and be happy.
> this salary wouldn't attract strong talent even in medium cost-of-living countries (like Portugal/Spain). lol, you have no idea what you’re talking about
Is it wrong? Assuming he refers to top talent, $50-80k isn’t enough to get anyone. You’d hardly be able to hire a top developer in Southeast Asia for this kind of money No one is taking about average employees
And you'd be surprised at how much exceptional talent is out there. Apparently with 8 billion people to choose from the supply pool gets a lot bigger than those who live in very expensive cities.
Luckily wfh means companies are much more likely to hire remote workers now. Well lucky for folks like me anyway...
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>I think americans need to really reflect on how inflated american dev salaries are. Or maybe people everywhere else need to really reflect on how underpaid they are. It’s not like the revenue of tech companies is lower outside of the US, so why isn’t more of it ending up in developers’ pockets, where it should go?
> It’s not like the revenue of tech companies is lower outside of the US, so why isn’t more of it ending up in developers’ pockets, where it should go? What you're forgetting is that taxes differ quite a lot from country to country. That, and cost of living is a factor too. If food and housing costs half as much, then even though you're paid less, you're not really poorer for it. I think many American developers are…
Because that salary is great in India which probably has at least 10x developers than Spain. And with that money you can really hire really good Indian developers who can speak English well enough, slog hard unlike the pampered Europeans and are hungrier to prove themselves in general.
But you are not wrong. Sure there are lots of Indian labor shops that have tarnished the reputation of specifically-Indian outsourcing, but there are also plenty of -very- smart Indians (and others globally.)
I get that this out-sourcing harms workers in high-cost-of-living countries, but then again they're the ones who promote remote-work, while at the same time demanding salaries well above their country median.
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I'm an American living in the UK, and I've had to do medical tourism to the US. What I needed wasn't available outside the US at any price.
Yes. American health "care" is the best. Problem is with the "administration" that for basic stuff, there is crazy price gouging and no free market competition. It is ridiculous that you have to involve insurance in every visit to a doctor AND it's tied to your employer being able to provide something.
Out of stubbornness, I fought with the lab for months to bill it correctly, and eventually got them to write it off by emailing the CEO.
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On the other hand, I know dozens of people that left their life and higher salaries in the US behind to come to the EU for those stated reasons.
From my observation, the ratio of American Engineers coming to Europe vs Europeans Engineers coming to America is at least 1:10, if not more. And most of the expats I know who did it seemed to be working for SV companies. So they didn't leave the higher salary behind.