Earlier quoted context omitted.
On the other hand, I know dozens of people that left their life and higher salaries in the US behind to come to the EU for those stated reasons.
Dozens even!
:D
Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?
131–140 of 200 posts
Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
Workers getting a large share of a company’s revenue, much of which is in the form of fractional ownership of the company sure sounds quasi-socialist to me! It doesn’t matter that market conditions led to this compensation scheme (as opposed to direct political intervention); what matters is the end result.
That's not what the terms socialism and capitalism mean. They describe the process, not end result. You can have full blown worker coops in the capitalist system, the question is if they are state mandated or not. The definition of socialism isn't any sytem with a good outcome for workers.
So are you saying that socialism can only exist if it's imposed and maintained by the state? (i.e. no democratic society can be socialist by definition?)
Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
Absurd compared to the local living wages, not compared to SF
Comparable to SF, but unsupported by the easy money.
> by the easy money.
A lot of this completely self-imposed (and very much by design) to prop-up real estate because there's no other industry to support the economy.
Vancouver is a prime example: it's extremely easy (compared to the US) for foreigners to purchase assets (even with questionable sources of incomes that wouldn't pass the higher scrutiny of USCIS) and for owners to collude into restricting the supply. They are happy since their investment appears to grow in value (they can get out of the game and cash-in if another foreigner decides to park his money into these assets) and the government is happy since a lot of people's retirements are tied to their home value and it gives the impression the economy is growing.
Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't know this website but for France it says 38k€/year on average. Which means they're not using the total salary but the post employer's taxes. I'm using France for reference, and approximate number for the sake of explanation: for 100€ cost to the company, 40€ is employer's taxes, 20€ is employee's taxes. We call 20+40 = 60 the "gross" salary, and 40 the net salary, we never talk about the 100 when negotiating…
On top of that come Europe's minimum vacation requirement of 4 weeks (although in practice, most are at anything from 24-30 days / 5-6 weeks), the unlimited sick days and numerous national holidays. Also, we have mandatory contributions for pension, social security, healthcare and (in Germany) workplace accident and elderly care insurance. All of that needs some form of accounting on the employer's side that drives u…
> but a lot of stuff that you'd have to take care of on your own in the US is covered by t
Not if you're a software engineer earning 150-200k+
Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
>median salary for a developer in Spain is $30,000 a year Whhhhaaaat? That doesn't sound right. I know a guy in Barcelona making $200k, although he works for a US company. Heck, even in Eastern Europe, with the right knowledge you can make $150k+.
That's the median. It's like saying the median salary for software engineers in US is $120K/year (which is "true" if you Google it)... but then all the Silicon Valley engineers would say "whaaaat? Here the juniors can easily earn $200K/year their first year!"... So, yeah in Europe you can earn as little or as much as everywhere else (of course, Silicon Valley is still the place to earn top money)
That's the median on some random site with very few self-reported samples...
Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I think americans need to really reflect on how inflated american dev salaries are. This statement makes no sense. We have a much higher cost of living here than in Europe.
SV vs. Berlin? Sure. Kentucky's hinterland vs. Paris? No, you don't. Fun fact, FAANG salaries in Europe depend on the lovation you are hired at, with differences between, e.g., Munich and Berlin for the same job levels. It is funny, because companiesbreally understood how salaries and cost of living are connected, and still every discussion on HN regarding dev salaries ignores this simple favt and only compares absol…
Many individuals either don’t understand (or pretend to not understand) that most companies make an offer based on what it takes to get you to accept their offer, not based on the value they expect you to create. (It’s perhaps capped by that, but is otherwise not related.)
“What’s your best alternative?” is what underlies the companies’ positions on negotiating salaries.
Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?
#137> this salary wouldn't attract strong talent even in medium cost-of-living countries (like portugal/spain). median salary for a developer in Spain is $30,000 a year[1], so 50-80k would easily place them in the upper 10% of the scale. I think americans need to really reflect on how inflated american dev salaries are. [1] https://www.payscale.com/research/ES/Job=Software_Developer/...
> 30,000 per year
I have friends in India who work as senior engineers for Indian companies that make more than that today. Nice to see that a European holiday is well within the purchasing power of Indian tech workers.
Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?
#138I am not so sure. 80K$ a year would be considered high here (even for a senior) and I live in a medium size city in the Netherlands.
If it's anything like Sweden, working as a permanent employee for a company in the Netherlands with that salary also gets you relatively high job security, pension contributions, 6-8 weeks off a year, unlimited sick leave, sometimes a collective agreement with guaranteed pay bumps or bonuses, often additional wellness allowances, etc. Some companies employ through a local entity which gets you some or all of those sa…
Side question: Do people typically get to use all those weeks off? I get 5 weeks off, but it's incredibly difficult to still hit my deadlines if I take any days off.
Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?
#139> this salary wouldn't attract strong talent even in medium cost-of-living countries (like Portugal/Spain). lol, you have no idea what you’re talking about
Is it wrong? Assuming he refers to top talent, $50-80k isn’t enough to get anyone. You’d hardly be able to hire a top developer in Southeast Asia for this kind of money No one is taking about average employees
Yes it’s wrong.
Also there’s no definition of top talents.
Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
It doesn't matter until it ends up mattering. Contracting an illness that prevents you from working and needs medical supervision can be life-ruining if your social security, etc. is tied to your employment.
Most corps carry long term disability insurance- I’d make more on that than an equivalent Euro paying job.
Now add in vacation and sick days, as well as the worker protections for things such as layoffs.