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EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

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Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Border dispute? They invaded the country, surrounded the capital and shelled the shit out of it.

Yes, because they shelled the minority who wanted independence since 2014. Nato bombed yugoslavia for months for the same thing, and they still act as a defensive organization.

> Yes, because they shelled the minority who wanted independence since 2014.

Funny way to spell “fought separatist forces supported by Russia”.

Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because they shelled the minority who wanted independence since 2014. Nato bombed yugoslavia for months for the same thing, and they still act as a defensive organization.

We could discuss the 2014 events for hours and in any case the shelling has been going from both directions. But there's one clear fact - the war in Donbas was calming down in intensity in the years preceding 2022. In the three years 2019-2021, 78 civilians died in total, mostly from old unexploded mines. There was absolutely no "need" to make it a full scale war and ramp up the number to tens of thousands civilians…

>in any case the shelling has been going from both directions.

Except the russians seem to direct their shells at hospitals etc.

Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#73

What about the countries buying up Russian gas an reselling it to EU countries? Did they stop that or have those countries just gotten smarter in hiding the origins of the gas?

Not smarter. Not even trying to hide it. And Russia is selling oil at a price they set. It's just the EU that's paying more to pretend they aren't doing business with Russia. "India’s diesel exports tripled to ~1,600,000 barrels per day in March 2023, compared to a year ago, making diesel one of the largest components of India-EU trade." https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/India-Leads-In-Russian...

India imports crude oil from Russia and refines it into products that Europe wants, like diesel as you mentioned.

You forgot to mention that Europe imported almost all diesel from Russia.

Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#74
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but before that gas was funding a self professed foe. It's much better to not fund your enemies.

That logic only works if Europe was the only trading partner available to Russia. What happened in practice is that Russia simply redirected trade to other countries while Europe now pays a huge markup buying from resellers.

But they aren't selling at their original price, Russia is now selling to those partners at a reduced price.

At the very least it reduces the amount of funds Russia has at its disposal for the war.

Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#75
post #9

EU continues to important Russian oil, it has just been refined and rebadged by India, Saudi Arabia, China and others, so that a statement like this could be made. EU is basically paying a premium in order to stake a claim to moral high ground they don't hold

That's still a rung lower in the added value chain. Minus the additional transportation. Minus slanted negotiation by China and India.

Also oil extraction is quite capital-intensive. A well will output most of its potential in the first 3 years. Currently, Russia is running on existing wells, and it currently is not profitable to establish new wells for them. For example Venezuela sits on deposits bigger than Saudi Arabia. At current prices it is not profitable to extract it.

They could buy runway for some time running negative, though. Provided they have the internal means to do so.

And there's the question of how much reserves and commercial balance they run at. That's what brought them to the negotiation table in 2014. We'll see what happens in a year or two.

Sanctions work.

Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the long term, Otto will be happy about this.

[flagged]

> Otto will own nothing and be happy.

If only people didn't take this quote out of context to plaster it over the internet all the time.

Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could discuss the 2014 events for hours and in any case the shelling has been going from both directions. But there's one clear fact - the war in Donbas was calming down in intensity in the years preceding 2022. In the three years 2019-2021, 78 civilians died in total, mostly from old unexploded mines. There was absolutely no "need" to make it a full scale war and ramp up the number to tens of thousands civilians…

Ukraine was preparing a war to take back donbas, and there was no "calming down". The problem is, that the media changed their stories after the start of war. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/osce-reports-surge-numb... > MOSCOW, Feb 19 (Reuters) - Two regions in eastern Ukraine where government and separatist forces have been fighting since 2014 were hit by more than 1,400 explosions on Friday, monitors for the O…

> MOSCOW, Feb 19 (Reuters) - Two regions in eastern Ukraine where government and separatist forces have been fighting since 2014 were hit by more than 1,400 explosions on Friday

How convenient. Russia had been moving soldiers and military equipment for months into position, scheduled a joint exercise with Belarus placing their soldiers in spitting distance of Kyiv, and then suddenly there are explosions "forcing" Russia to invade. Wow, it sure worked out fortunately that half of their military was already there.

Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#78
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That logic only works if Europe was the only trading partner available to Russia. What happened in practice is that Russia simply redirected trade to other countries while Europe now pays a huge markup buying from resellers.

But they aren't selling at their original price, Russia is now selling to those partners at a reduced price. At the very least it reduces the amount of funds Russia has at its disposal for the war.

The discounts Russia offers to its partners are minimal, and as CNN reports, Russia's revenues are back to pre-war levels. So, not sure what you're going on about there. https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/14/energy/russia-oil-exports-iea...

Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ukraine was preparing a war to take back donbas, and there was no "calming down". The problem is, that the media changed their stories after the start of war. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/osce-reports-surge-numb... > MOSCOW, Feb 19 (Reuters) - Two regions in eastern Ukraine where government and separatist forces have been fighting since 2014 were hit by more than 1,400 explosions on Friday, monitors for the O…

> Ukraine was preparing a war to take back donbas It's sad that there's absolutely zero evidence of that except for Kremlin's justification for its own invasion. Isn't this excuse as old as war? "we had to invade, otherwise they would invade us". > This was just before russia entered the war. Well, exactly. Russia was looking for casus beli. There were reports of increased separatist shelling, they likely wanted to p…

> there's absolutely zero evidence of that

OP linked a Reuters post citing OSCE numbers. This organisation includes most European countries, US and Russia among others.

If we can’t listen to est neither to west, who should we listen ? You, my Colonel ?

Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#80
The EU has achieved "independence" by shutting down much of the German chemical industry. Now they're going to import those chemicals from other countries where they are still manufactured with cheap fossil fuels. Not exactly a net win from an independence standpoint.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/inside-germanys-industrial...

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