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Lyft’s plan to take control of its maps and its future

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Re: Lyft’s plan to take control of its maps and its future

#51

Post by pietervdvn »

iLoveOncall wrote: post #8
DoctorOW wrote: post #6

This is yet another "We found a community project providing us with billions of dollars in free work but don't find it worth the effort to contribute anything back"

I may get downvoted, but if OSM was not fine with this exact situation happening, then they shouldn't license it the way they do. Nothing seems to indicate so far that they're not fine with the situation so it looks like everyone is happy.

Well, it is not as if the OSM-community is a monolithic one. Some people are hardline anti-corporate and don't like this; others are part of a big corporation and see this as business as usual.

Even if Lyft would not give back in some form (spoiler: they do, see https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lyft), it spreads awareness and drivers will figure out they can fix issues themselves.

Re: Lyft’s plan to take control of its maps and its future

#52

Post by ikawe »

DoctorOW wrote: post #6

This is yet another "We found a community project providing us with billions of dollars in free work but don't find it worth the effort to contribute anything back"

The ODbL requires Lyft to contribute back any edits they make.

https://opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/summary/

> Share-Alike: If you publicly use any adapted version of this database, or works produced from an adapted database, you must also offer that adapted database under the ODbL.

Re: Lyft’s plan to take control of its maps and its future

#53

Post by acdha »

pcurve wrote: post #34

"For instance, Google always presents drivers with the fastest route, regardless of tolls. But sometimes, paying a toll would shave only a minute or two off the ride, while adding significantly to the cost." Ah... the joy of NYC tolls. Even with EZ pass, a ride to JFK from NJ is almost $28 just in toll roundtrip. $37 without EZ pass. $37!!!

That seems fair for crowding into one of the most densely populated areas in the country, especially since going to JFK instead of flying out of Newark means you’re taking up space and polluting NYC without generating any positive value for the city. Tolls directly benefit the city by partially helping to pay for the extremely expensive infrastructure needed to make that trip work, and indirectly by encouraging people to make travel plans with fewer downsides for everyone around.

Re: Lyft’s plan to take control of its maps and its future

#54

Post by bsimpson »

sushisource wrote: post #17
bri3d wrote: post #3

Does anyone know if Lyft plan to contribute their map corrections back to OSM? They mention other companies doing so in this blog post, but don't make it clear whether or not they, too, intend to. I'm curious to see how good Lyft Maps is, too. Uber Maps is, frankly, a disaster in my area, frequently suggesting illegal and/or impossible turns. I try to submit map feedback every trip (very hard as a rider, as most form…

I also find it consistently obnoxious that there is essentially no way to say "My driver was fine, but your platform did something stupid" when leaving feedback. At least, not without jumping through a million hoops. The arrogance of our industry is tiresome. I took a ride in SF a while ago and it predicted a 3 minute pick up time which turned out to be 25 minutes - no fault of the driver, and the only way I could co…

Lyft support is inconsistent.

Sometimes, you'll report a minor issue and get an over-the-top "OMG - WE'RE SO SORRY! HERE'S FREE MONEY AND YOU'LL NEVER BE PAIRED WITH THIS DRIVER AGAIN!"

Other times, you'll report an actual problem, like being charged more than advertised, and they'll do nothing to remediate.

After being charged more than expected on a couple recent rides, I basically stopped using Lyft.

Re: Lyft’s plan to take control of its maps and its future

#55

Post by ninja3925 »

bri3d wrote: post #48
uneekname wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lyft is one of the biggest contributors to OSM. Here is a list of OSM accounts related to Lyft [0]. In many places where I've edited OSM, Lyft employees have contributed quality data where there wasn't any before. How (and, how respectfully) companies should contribute to OSM is an ongoing debate. But corporate influences are often a good thing, and I think nearly anyone would agree that Lyft's contributions to OSM h…

Isn't this the driverless car team, vs. the ride-mapping team? Regardless, it's good to see that they are contributing back to OSM. I agree that overall the use of OSM by anyone "lifts all ships" as long as users continue to contribute back. OSM is one of the most positive projects around lately in terms of taking something that used to be extremely expensive and highly restricted and democratizing it.

I used to work for Lyft and I can confirm that both teams (driverless and ride-share) contribute. Ride-share scaled later which may give you that false impression.

And Yes, it's a big investment for Lyft for the open source community.

Re: Lyft’s plan to take control of its maps and its future

#56

Post by uneekname »

bri3d wrote: post #48
uneekname wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lyft is one of the biggest contributors to OSM. Here is a list of OSM accounts related to Lyft [0]. In many places where I've edited OSM, Lyft employees have contributed quality data where there wasn't any before. How (and, how respectfully) companies should contribute to OSM is an ongoing debate. But corporate influences are often a good thing, and I think nearly anyone would agree that Lyft's contributions to OSM h…

Isn't this the driverless car team, vs. the ride-mapping team? Regardless, it's good to see that they are contributing back to OSM. I agree that overall the use of OSM by anyone "lifts all ships" as long as users continue to contribute back. OSM is one of the most positive projects around lately in terms of taking something that used to be extremely expensive and highly restricted and democratizing it.

That may be true. But as a whole, it is worth noting that Lyft hires a significant number of people to edit OSM. Here is an interesting 2021 post by Jennings Anderson discussing paid edits on OSM, and how companies compare in their contributions:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Jennings%20Anderson/diary...

I agree about how successful OSM has been recently. In an age where Wikipedia for example seems relatively mature, it's fun to see OSM grow at such a pace.

Re: Lyft’s plan to take control of its maps and its future

#57

Post by Scoundreller »

pietervdvn wrote: post #46
Retric wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Map creators include intentionally incorrect information (Map Traps) so people copying them are obviously copying them. I sometimes wonder if that’s the root cause of companies failing to correct some of their mistakes . https://www.gislounge.com/map-traps-intentional-mapping-erro...

Map Traps (as these are called) are normally pretty harmless, e.g. a non-existent, small cul-de-sac that doesn't exist. A turn restriction (which is quite invisible!) seldom is.

Meanwhile, in Toronto, I see some bigger driveways listed as roads on Google maps, and I always wonder if it’s a legally correct city survey artefact and I could park a car there etc. if I wanted, or just a trap/misclassification.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/CXRh6LFRhgZo1P9k8?g_st=ic

Re: Lyft’s plan to take control of its maps and its future

#58

Post by KMnO4 »

ryandrake wrote: post #27
sushisource wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also find it consistently obnoxious that there is essentially no way to say "My driver was fine, but your platform did something stupid" when leaving feedback. At least, not without jumping through a million hoops. The arrogance of our industry is tiresome. I took a ride in SF a while ago and it predicted a 3 minute pick up time which turned out to be 25 minutes - no fault of the driver, and the only way I could co…

Pick up time predictions are garbage, because ride shares allow cancelations. Last time I used a ride share, I had eight drivers accept and then cancel on me. The predicted departure time was always "8 minutes away" and then "looking for another driver" over and over. I probably waited an hour.

I had a ride from YVR airport where no less than 30 drivers[0] cancelled on me. I would get the notification that the driver was on their way, tap it, and then catch a brief one second flash of the driver before they disappeared and I was back in the queue.

[0]: I’m sure it would be much more, but I gave up and took the train instead

Re: Lyft’s plan to take control of its maps and its future

#59

Post by braza »

rabuse wrote: post #29

I don't ever see Lyft being a profitable company. I've been betting against their stock since they hit the market, and it just keeps plummeting YoY.

I have been in a company that marginally that was in the same situation as Lyft, financially speaking, and for me sounds brave and bonkers that those folks still have time to blog post in a very stock-nose-diving situation.

Re: Lyft’s plan to take control of its maps and its future

#60

Post by altairprime »

throwaway049 wrote: post #9
bri3d wrote: post #3

Does anyone know if Lyft plan to contribute their map corrections back to OSM? They mention other companies doing so in this blog post, but don't make it clear whether or not they, too, intend to. I'm curious to see how good Lyft Maps is, too. Uber Maps is, frankly, a disaster in my area, frequently suggesting illegal and/or impossible turns. I try to submit map feedback every trip (very hard as a rider, as most form…

I've submitted a correction for an illegal turn instruction twice on Google maps. No reply. But my other corrections have been accepted.

The way to get that corrected is to ask the local police to ticket illegal turns at that intersection for a day, indicating that Google refuses to correct the issue and is directing hundreds of violations a day at the intersection. Google ignores unenforced road signs that are frequently ignored by their data providers (drivers), so enforcement complaints from drivers are necessary to force the correction.
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