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Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

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Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#381
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

If it involves people, it will be political. There's absolutely zero way to avoid it short of it being a single-person project (and arguably even _that_ will be Political at the very least).

Ah yes "there is always x, so why shy from this x?", I wonder if there's a named logical fallacy for this, I think the closest might be "Moral Equivalence"

There will always be drama, there will always be politics, but I wonder how entities manage to graze by with broad support in those situations, possibly by being equitable, consistent and transparent? Just guessing.

Python doesn't have so much regarding internal struggles of power, same for Linux (BFDL might have his controversies but nobody is seriously considering forking the Kernel)- and that's one of the largest FOSS projects on the planet. Even when things get super sticky (like nvidia) people still broadly support Linux and the direction?

Why is that? There's politics, but we're not really complaining that there are politics, we're complaining that there's a essence of abuse here. We're complaining that there is a distinct lack of transparency, consistency, and a broad lack of what many would consider to be morally OK.

That's not really politics, but you could just roll it into the same word if you're dismissing a project for troubling elements that are non-technical. Politics being people and all.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#382
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a pretty political statement Dale.

Right now it's being armed, eventually it will be thinking and stating wrongspeak. Seen this song and dance play out so many times my notebook is rusty from age.

why do you people always talk like cartoon villains

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#383

I disagree with the general sentiment in this thread that this is a useless immature move. Sure, Crab will almost certainly not replace Rust, but that is not the goal. The ultimate objective is to influence Rust stakeholders' decisions. This is similar to a strike where ultimately your goal is not to destroy the company or to quit and leave, but to achieve better conditions. In both cases it sometimes works and somet…

CrabLang doesn't want to influence Rust stakeholders' decisions. They 100% support all the decisions the Rust Project made. CrabLang was created to get people to out themselves who hate Rust and want to see it fail. Anyways... > The ultimate objective is to influence Rust stakeholders' decisions. That's not what this fork says is the objective. https://crablang.org/ > We simply want to use [Rust] while retaining the…

>In which case, CrabLang wanted to use the Rust trademarks to deceive people into thinking it's endorsed by the project and foundation.

Instead, I see their statement as a visceral reaction to some legal threat they received that they don't think was valid. They probably weren't trying to deceive anyone, they just wanted to name their project "Rust Widget" or something and don't like that they are open to legal action from that because someone might think that's an official Rust project, when it's not... Even if most people would know it's not.

I'm not privy to any information in this debate, I just don't support your interpretation of their words. I think mine is a more charitable interpretation until further evidence of their actual meaning comes to light.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#384
post #35

For anyone critizing this: From the trademark bullshit to the conference drama, it's clear at this point that someone with influence in the Rust foundation is behaving like an asshole and damaging the project. That can happen in open source, see Stallman and others. It's also clear that others at the Rust foundation tolerate this behavior, downplay it, don't understand the impact, don't want to go against a "respecte…

Just to get this straight: Did you just say that Stallman, the inventor of free software, is damaging OpenSource?

Learn the meaning of the two words:

Open Source = You can see the source. Usually MIT / BSD + GPL + MPL and various others are all "Open Source"

Free Software = GPL and other licenses that enforce the users freedom of access to source code. Free has nothing to do with cost.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#385

I disagree with the general sentiment in this thread that this is a useless immature move. Sure, Crab will almost certainly not replace Rust, but that is not the goal. The ultimate objective is to influence Rust stakeholders' decisions. This is similar to a strike where ultimately your goal is not to destroy the company or to quit and leave, but to achieve better conditions. In both cases it sometimes works and somet…

> Sure, Crab will almost certainly not replace Rust, but that is not the goal. I see it as: there's a finite amount of people who choose to dedicate their unpaid free time contributing to making Rust better (working on fixing bugs, new features, etc.) This seems like fragmentation which basically will slow down progress. Now, obviously the people who choose to dedicate their free time to open source software are enti…

You're making a huge assumption with the "unpaid free time" part of this. A lot of Rust development is driven by corporations who are directly paying engineers to work on it, and the rust foundation has a lot of money coming in via donations (literally millions).

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#386
post #6

The main website has an explanation for the reasons behind this: https://crablang.org/ More context: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35583089

Rust was always a corporation/FAANG language when you looked at contributors and sponsors, so it's probably not real reason, I mean it is clear async was rushed out for AWS/Amazon and everyone celebrated it nonetheless. People like to hide motives

I'm curious to the story behind async being rushed out for Amazon

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#387
One thing I always find interesting / amusing is how the timing of certain types of post here on HN is in a sense far more informative (e.g. by implication as to "what is the current zeitgeist that has suddenly made this "news" or relevant again?), than the linked articles themselves.

E.g. crablang wasn't exactly announced yesterday for this to be newsworthy in itself; but an HN top post on crablang almost serves as a reliable signal for yet another rust gossipworthy event being in the news.

Same with Signal/Telegram as a signal for WhatsApp; Telegram as a signal for E2EE, etc

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#388
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cue node.js - io.js and gcc - egcs

Or the short lived "@ lang", a fork of typescript or javascript (I believe) that added annotations because the Angular developers really wanted annotations. I can't even find any information about it anymore, maybe my google skills are failing.

[deleted]

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#389

Interesting, how many negative comments this gets. People seem to love monoculture run by committees. This is exactly what OSS is all about. Take a code base and develop it into different directions. Both code and organization. And "natural selection" will have some forks die and others strife.

I like languages that are a monoculture. It's a mess when you have many flavors of a language. Anyone else here remember the joy of various Fortran variants? It was a pain in the ass - VMS Fortran, Cray Fortran, HPF, etc... ("How do I call a subroutine with a Cray Pointer" - pointers were variant specific? Ugh). Pulling the variants together under a common standard made it reasonable to build projects from multiple g…

Pascal (eg Turbo Pascal) vs Super Pascal vs Object Pascal also springs to mind.
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