Live data from Hacker News

Statement on AI Risk

safe.ai

181–190 of 964 posts

Re: Statement on AI Risk

#181
post #56

Can anybody who really believes this apocalyptic stuff send me in the direction of a convincing _argument_ that this is actually a concern? I'm willing to listen, but I haven't read anything that tries to actually convince the reader of the worry, rather than appealing to their authority as "experts" - ie, the well funded.

I recommend Robert Miles's YouTube channel, and his "Intro to AI Safety, Remastered" is a good place to start: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYXy-A4siMw

I find Robert Miles worryingly plausible when he says (about 12:40 into the video) "if you have a sufficiently powerful agent and you manage to come up with a really good objective function, which covers the top 20 things that humans value, the 21st thing that humans value is probably gone forever"

Re: Statement on AI Risk

#182
At this point, I think it's obvious that concern about AI existential risk isn't a position reserved for industry shills and ignorant idiots.

I mean... that's not even debatable. Geoffrey Hinton and Yoshua Bengio aren't financially motivated to talk about AI x-risk and aren't ignorant idiots. In fact, they both have natural reasons to not talk about AI x-risk.

Re: Statement on AI Risk

#183
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if there is no distinction, by your own words, can you take yourself seriously or not? That is, by your own words, both AI and the Internet either pose a risk or they both do not; 'there is no distinction.'

I do not think the internet, or AI in its current form, is a existential risk to humanity, no.

I think if you were referring to AI in its 'current form' all along, then most people will probably agree with you, myself included. But 20 years from now? I personally think it would be arrogant to dismiss the potential dangers.

Re: Statement on AI Risk

#184
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know there were similar hysterias when automated weaving looms and other extreme labor saving machines came out. These machines did actually put a lot of people out of work, but they grew the economy so much that the net number of jobs increased. In a way it's actually a bit dystopian that the "everyone will be put out of work" predictions never come true, because it means we never get that promised age of leisure.…

Automation has increased income inequality for the past few decades, and is likely to continue to do so as more tech jobs and service jobs are automated in addition to office jobs and manufacturing jobs. > In a way it's actually a bit dystopian that the "everyone will be put out of work" predictions never come true, because it means we never get that promised age of leisure. It's disappointing that the economy seems…

Not globally: https://kagi.com/proxy/th?c=lUfv1nYBTMKYtKYO-rQ4Vg_QAA9uQJ07...

Outsourcing has stagnated wages in the developed world, but the cost of manufactured goods has also plummeted. The only reason people aren't better off is that the developed world (especially the anglosphere) has a "cost disease" around things like real estate that prevents people from benefiting from global scale price deflation. It doesn't help you much if gadgets are super cheap but housing is insanely expensive. The high cost of housing is unrelated to automation.

Re: Statement on AI Risk

#185
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same could be said about the internet at large, no?

Are you saying that the internet at large could pose a 'legitimate risk to human life such that we would go extinct in the near future,' or do you disagree that AI, when used as a tool by humans, could pose such a risk?

In retrospective, the internet has done a lot to stifle human progress or thriving through proliferation of extremist ideas and overwhelming addictiveness.

Just take the recent events alone - COVID-19 would not have been as much of a threat to humanity if some people wouldn't have built echo chambers on the internet with tremendous influence over others where they would share their unfounded conspiracy theories and miracle cures (or miracle alternatives to protecting oneself).

But there is a lot more. The data collection through the internet has enabled politicians who have no clue how to lead to be elected through just saying the right things to the largest demographic they can appeal to. Total populism and appeasing the masses has always been an effective strategy for politicians, but at least they could not execute it effectively. Now, everyone with enough money can. And this definitely stifles human progress and enshrines a level of regression in our institutions. Potentially dangerous regression, especially when it involves prejudice against a group or stripping away rights, just because people talk about it in their DMs on social media and get binned into related affinity buckets for ads.

Then there is the aspect of the internet creating tremendous time-wasters for a very large proportion of the population, robbing humanity of at least a million man-years of productivity a day. It is too addictive.

It has also been used to facilitate genocides, severe prejudice in large populations, and other things that are extremely dangerous.

High risk? Maybe not. A risk, though, for sure. Life was significantly more positive, happier and more productive before the internet. But the negative impact internet has had on our lives and human progress isn't all that it could have had. When a senile meme president gets the nuclear codes thanks in part to a funny frog picture on the internet, I think that is enough to say it poses a risk to extinction.

Re: Statement on AI Risk

#186

Reading into the early comments from this piece, there is a clear divide in opinions even here on HN. The opinions seem to fall into two camps: 1) This is just a move that evil tech companies are making in order to control who has access to AI and to maintain their dominance 2) AI is scary af and we are at a inflection point in history where we need to proceed cautiously. This NYTimes piece is clearly debating the la…

I agree that the second question is way more interesting, and I'm glad there's a lot of ongoing discussion and debate about it. And you have some insightful thoughts on it here. But I disagree with you that this is clearly what the NYT article is about. There is a significant focus on the "industry leaders" who have been most visible in - suddenly! - pushing for regulation. And that's why people are reasonably pointi…

Cite where it is being said that these companies are arguing "to make their models legal, but any competitive upstarts illegal". As far as I know nothing of the sort has been proposed. You may think this is obvious, but it is far from it.

Re: Statement on AI Risk

#187

Reading into the early comments from this piece, there is a clear divide in opinions even here on HN. The opinions seem to fall into two camps: 1) This is just a move that evil tech companies are making in order to control who has access to AI and to maintain their dominance 2) AI is scary af and we are at a inflection point in history where we need to proceed cautiously. This NYTimes piece is clearly debating the la…

Opinion falls into two camps because opinion falls into political camps.

The right-wing is tired of the California ideology, is invested in the primary and secondary sectors of the economy, and has learned to mistrust claims that the technology industry makes about itself (regardless of those claims are prognostications of gloom vs bloom).

The left-wing thinks that technology is the driving factor of history, is invested in the tertiary and quaternary sectors of the economy, and trusts claims that the technology industry makes about itself. Anytime I see a litany of "in 10 years this is gonna be really important" I really just hear "right now, me and my job are really important".

The discussion has nothing to do with whether AI will or will not change society. I don't think anyone actually cares about this. The whole debate is really about who/what rules the world. The more powerful/risky AI is, the easier it is to imagine that "nerds shall rule the world".

Re: Statement on AI Risk

#188
I find it quite extraordinary how many on here are dismissing that there is any risk at all. I also find statements like Yann LeCunn's that "The most common reaction by AI researchers to these prophecies of doom is face palming." to be lacking in awareness. "Experts disagree on risk of extinction" isn't quite as reassuring as he thinks it is.

The reality is, despite the opinions of the armchair quarterbacks commenting here, no-one in the world has any clue whether AGI is possible in the next twenty years, just as no-one predicted scaling up transformers would result in GPT-4.

Re: Statement on AI Risk

#189

Government sanctioned monopoly anyone? But I'm just repeating the other comments. Plus the 'AI' is a text generator, not something general purpose. Are ANY projects based on these LLMs that do anything besides generating spam?

Yes my one uses in in a semi-useful way! But agree use cases are limited and even in my project it’s not fully smart enough to be very useful

Re: Statement on AI Risk

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, really? They guy who tried to make a world coin by stealing people’s biometrics data with a shiny metal orb?

This doofus actually probably thinks that the poor of the world will line up to submit to his (AI’s) benevolent rule. What a joke.

counterpoint: every crazy person you know who is on facebook.
Post reply on HN