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Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

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Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#61

Post by pjerem »

jacquesm wrote: post #31
gamesbrainiac wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those figures are wrong to be honest. Most senior folks in Spain don't work for Spanish companies in general; they work for EU companies that pay more. Plenty of senior folks in Spain making $100k+. In Barcelona, you can make north of $70K easy; even for non-senior devs. I agree with OP. The salary is way too low for a senior European developer to consider because taking a US job means that there are no employment pr…

North of $70K is still a ways away from $100K+ and I'd love to see which companies we're talking about here because that's not the news that reaches me from Spain. Rather the opposite.

70k in Europe is totally comparable to 100k in US though and is a pretty comfortable salary in Europe.

Even if life is a little more expensive in Europe, you don’t need as much emergency savings as in the US.

Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#62

Post by School-Cotton »

MontyCarloHall wrote: post #54
School-Cotton wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of countries are neoliberal/capitalist so that’s simply not how it works. Your pay is a function of the market price for your talents, not of how much your boss is making.

So, ironically, in that regard, the US tech labor market is far more socialist than its European counterpart.

Not really. They are both neoliberal, just with different market conditions.

Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#63

Post by cosmolev »

Traubenfuchs wrote: post #16

Yikes. Those are (central) European numbers, but we get free insulin, free dentistry and free brain & heart surgery, several mandatory weeks of paid time off and months of notice period. I guess the 100k or even 200k, or 300k starting meme finally died at a time of record inflation no less.

At first, I thought you were referencing the absence of the sugary drink tax when you were talking about "free insulin."

Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#64

Post by myth2018 »

mindondrugs wrote: post #11

> this salary wouldn't attract strong talent even in medium cost-of-living countries (like portugal/spain). median salary for a developer in Spain is $30,000 a year[1], so 50-80k would easily place them in the upper 10% of the scale. I think americans need to really reflect on how inflated american dev salaries are. [1] https://www.payscale.com/research/ES/Job=Software_Developer/...

> I think americans need to really reflect on how inflated american dev salaries are.

Considering the high costs of living in some of their regions, those salaries may be justified. But I believe they are definitely not in a good position when it comes to remote work + competing with English-speaking developers in poorer countries. Situation in Europe may be similar.

In Europe they can find African developers in the same timezone, while in North-America they have Latin-America. Given the lower costs of living + favorable exchange rates, the difference in terms of purchasing power ending in developers' pockets is huge in favor of the ones in the southern hemisphere.

Maybe those in the richer countries shouldn't be too vocal against return-to-office?

Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#65

Post by MontyCarloHall »

School-Cotton wrote: post #62
MontyCarloHall wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, ironically, in that regard, the US tech labor market is far more socialist than its European counterpart.

Not really. They are both neoliberal, just with different market conditions.

Workers getting a large share of a company’s revenue, much of which is in the form of fractional ownership of the company sure sounds quasi-socialist to me! It doesn’t matter that market conditions led to this compensation scheme (as opposed to direct political intervention); what matters is the end result.

Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#66

Post by antisthenes »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #8
ceejayoz wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's good time to lowball There's lowballing, and then there's insulting.

Why would that be an insult? If they can find someone good enough at that rate, then why would they pay more? And if they can't, then they'll just need to discover the market floor by experience.

When you're scraping the market floor, there are much higher chances of hiring someone who will bring negative value.

Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#67

Post by School-Cotton »

Traubenfuchs wrote: post #16

Yikes. Those are (central) European numbers, but we get free insulin, free dentistry and free brain & heart surgery, several mandatory weeks of paid time off and months of notice period. I guess the 100k or even 200k, or 300k starting meme finally died at a time of record inflation no less.

Other than the months of notice period, American tech workers get all of those things.

Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#68

Post by jorgemf »

sgt wrote: post #43
jorgemf wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dont thrust those numbers. 50k € is a very high salary in Spain for a software developer. The average is probably closer to 35k €

How much would 50k EUR be in Spain after taxes, more or less?

35k (bear in mind we have a public health system, the universities are like 3k a year and the rent is less than 1k, if you are fired you have up to 2 years of your salary, etc)

Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#70

Post by CoastalCoder »

antisthenes wrote: post #66
CoastalCoder wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would that be an insult? If they can find someone good enough at that rate, then why would they pay more? And if they can't, then they'll just need to discover the market floor by experience.

When you're scraping the market floor, there are much higher chances of hiring someone who will bring negative value.

I agree, but it seems to me that it's still the employers choice whether or not to take that gamble.

So I'm still not understand the basis for feeling insulted my an employer testing the market in this manner.

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