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Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

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Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#241

Post by coffeeblack »

dijit wrote: post #47
scns wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Let a 1000 flowers bloom. There is an essay about it. To lazy to google it. Maybe some fellow has it bookmarked.

Let a thousand flowers bloom is a common misquotation of Chairman Mao Zedong's "Let a hundred flowers blossom". That slogan was used in the summer of 1957 when the Chinese intelligentsia were invited to criticise the political system then obtaining in Communist China. The full quotation, taken from a speech of Mao's in Peking in February 1957, is: "Letting a hundred flowers blossom and a hundred schools of thought co…

You missed to mentioned that he murdered all voices that dared to come up with ideas.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#242

Post by johnisgood »

coffeeblack wrote: post #229
johnisgood wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toy... well, similarly to that of most Rust rewrites of long-established stable projects.

Or that "toy OS" Linux. Heard it all a thousand times already.

Some people still call Linux a toy OS? That is crazy though, it is evidently false. Oh welp.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#243

Post by commitpizza »

Nanana909 wrote: post #110
commitpizza wrote: post #81

Here is a good walk-through of the changes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gutR_LNoZw0 I don't particularly care about Rust but one of the reasons I've hesitated to learn / use it was because the project seemed like it was led by woke people that pushed politics into the programming space which imo is completely unnecessary. One thing I've learned by experience is that people who push their political agenda into eve…

> the project seemed like it was led by woke people that pushed politics into the programming space which imo is completely unnecessary You’re not wrong, to a degree, but avoiding the language because of this is exactly the wrong take. Instead, if more people use it these sentiments are diluted and approach the median. IMO by even caring about this at all in your language decisions, you’re engaging in the exact same…

> IMO by even caring about this at all in your language decisions, you’re engaging in the exact same kind of game as those people are

Well, that is becaused I feel forced into it. I wouldn't care about the maintainers political views unless they pushed it down my throat at every opportunity they get.

I feel it is a sound economical choice not to support orgs and people who are toxic or actively work against you and your interests. I vote with my wallet when it comes to products and services but when it comes to languages I vote with my time and knowledge. I choose another programming language instead, it's not like there isn't any options out there.

What if I would have picked Rust? Then I would have to get a new domain for my website, I would feel unwelcome in the community because I don't share their political opinions and likely other things that is yet to come. Nah, I'd rather go with people and projects that don't do this kind of crap which I don't have time for honestly.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#244

Post by [deleted] »

codeflo wrote: post #35

For anyone critizing this: From the trademark bullshit to the conference drama, it's clear at this point that someone with influence in the Rust foundation is behaving like an asshole and damaging the project. That can happen in open source, see Stallman and others. It's also clear that others at the Rust foundation tolerate this behavior, downplay it, don't understand the impact, don't want to go against a "respecte…

[deleted]

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#245

Post by fermigier »

codeflo wrote: post #35

For anyone critizing this: From the trademark bullshit to the conference drama, it's clear at this point that someone with influence in the Rust foundation is behaving like an asshole and damaging the project. That can happen in open source, see Stallman and others. It's also clear that others at the Rust foundation tolerate this behavior, downplay it, don't understand the impact, don't want to go against a "respecte…

I met Stallman for the first time in ~1993-1995, in Paris. He was talking about the threat of copyright on user interfaces (the infamous "thrash bin" lawsuit) and (but less so) on software patents, speaking in the name of the League for Programming Freedom[1] (LPF) that he was leading at the time.

So this was a talk explicitly about programming freedom (and against the risk posed by excessive IP regulations), NOT about free software.

Everybody in the room mostly agreed with Stallman, but there was one guy, a shareware author, who had some objections to what he was saying, namely that he wanted some protection for his software and thought that his business couldn't survive without them. Stallman was not pleased at the objection, and began shouting at him like a madman, saying that he deserved to die (figuratively).

This happened again a few years later, still in my presence, this time against a representative of MuPAD, an organisation who had ported their software to Linux. Since I was the person who had invited MuPAD in the first place, I got my fair share of Stallman's burst of anger.

Needless to say, I found the first event bizarre, to say the least, and Stallman lost all of my respect, as a person, after the second event.

Besides his anger management issues, I think that he made a major mistake in focussing on free software as a goal in itself, and not on programming freedom, which could have rallied many more supporters.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_for_Programming_Freedom

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#246

Post by insanitybit »

qersist3nce wrote: post #46
silisili wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All this does is creating unnecessary drama surrounding the Rust foundation. They are doing a fantastic job of creating drama all by themselves. I don't use Rust, but the constant childish bickering has turned me away from even caring to.

Many years ago, I read a comment on Slashdot saying "the fact of a programming language having a "code of conduct" makes it ripe for everlasting drama and politics." It made sense then and it makes sense now.

Except that most languages have significant amounts of drama. Rust drama is just more interesting to people because it's newer.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#247

Post by allisdust »

One good thing about these pointless forks is, they help reduce the number of people who are in it for the drama and get emotionally turbulent for every disagreement. Eventually people who actually care for the language and invested in its long term success remain. I wish the crab people well and hope they never decide to come back to Rust.

PS: Can't help but chuckle reading people's comments on wanting to either abandon Rust or not try it. Used to be that languages were picked based on use case/fit. Then it turned to hype cycle. And now it's going to be based on people drama ?

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#248

Post by colesantiago »

sgt wrote: post #200
colesantiago wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenOffice isn't dead, they made a release a few months ago this year. https://blogs.apache.org/OOo/entry/announcing-apache-openoff... Last commit made 3 days ago, actively maintained. https://github.com/apache/openoffice

So you went to github and saw commits made 3 days ago, then concluded that surely that means the project isn't dead. It is though, you're just completely missing the forest for the trees - a typical trait of programmer types.

It isn't though until they say it is discontinued.

You also missed that OpenOffice made a new release and they were even bothered enough to make a post about it. Hardly a trait of dead software.

As much as you would love to say it is dead:

It officially isn't and it is still maintained.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#249

Post by insanitybit »

porcoda wrote: post #143
silisili wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All this does is creating unnecessary drama surrounding the Rust foundation. They are doing a fantastic job of creating drama all by themselves. I don't use Rust, but the constant childish bickering has turned me away from even caring to.

> I don't use Rust, but the constant childish bickering has turned me away from even caring to. Same. I want to use it because technically it's the right choice for a few projects, but when I talk to people in my organization I still label it as "too immature and volatile to adopt today, but worth watching". I was hoping the adoption by Linux and Microsoft would be the forcing factor to stabilize it, but the governan…

Rust is pretty stable and clearly past the point of being immature and volatile. A few issues that the internet has blown up lately doesn't change that.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#250

Post by insanitybit »

grt_thr wrote: post #10
tirpen wrote: post #3

Well, people fork languages and libraries all the time. Does this fork have a significant amount of support? By whom? Or why is this news worthy?

Rust has been rather monolithic. There is no such thing as a rust spec, just whatever the rust compiler does. This is a good first step to making it into a language people work in rather than just blog about.

I've done professional rust development and know many others who do. A spec hasn't been an issue for us.
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