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Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

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Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#151

Post by milohax »

Nanana909 wrote: post #68
codeflo wrote: post #35

For anyone critizing this: From the trademark bullshit to the conference drama, it's clear at this point that someone with influence in the Rust foundation is behaving like an asshole and damaging the project. That can happen in open source, see Stallman and others. It's also clear that others at the Rust foundation tolerate this behavior, downplay it, don't understand the impact, don't want to go against a "respecte…

Agree on all points. Something needs to change in the Rust foundation fundamentally. But as far as forks go this one seems quite low effort. Does the tactic work if the other side knows what you’re doing? From Ashley Williams, former founding member of the Rust Foundation (I don’t support her pretentious tone here)[1]: > "I don't think any of the folks who are part of it are language designers," said Williams. "They…

gatekeeping much? (Williams, I mean)

Rust is on my list of things that I want to learn to use. I suppose that for now I can ignore the politics, but I don't know that I'd pick up Crab instead... what about all the crates, and cargo?

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#152

Post by lloeki »

weinzierl wrote: post #55

I disagree with the general sentiment in this thread that this is a useless immature move. Sure, Crab will almost certainly not replace Rust, but that is not the goal. The ultimate objective is to influence Rust stakeholders' decisions. This is similar to a strike where ultimately your goal is not to destroy the company or to quit and leave, but to achieve better conditions. In both cases it sometimes works and somet…

cue node.js - io.js and gcc - egcs

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#153

Post by goodpoint »

pietro72ohboy wrote: post #66
codeflo wrote: post #35

For anyone critizing this: From the trademark bullshit to the conference drama, it's clear at this point that someone with influence in the Rust foundation is behaving like an asshole and damaging the project. That can happen in open source, see Stallman and others. It's also clear that others at the Rust foundation tolerate this behavior, downplay it, don't understand the impact, don't want to go against a "respecte…

> That can happen in open source, see Stallman and others. Could you elaborate on because I'm increasingly seeing Stallman being thrown around as a bogeyman who impeded FOSS progress for years if not decades and I really dislike this trend. It seems that his personal views (which I do not support) and eccentricity is being conflated with his contributions to FOSS. I will preface this by noting that this is "my belief…

This has nothing to do with the GPL. For more than two decades Stallman has been described as a terrible public speaker by most people who met him in person. He has many strange quirks and can be very brash. He himself admits being very tone deaf.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#154

Post by johnisgood »

eyko wrote: post #137
unconed wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you name a few of these luminaries to see what we've lost? Most of what I've heard about Stallman are social attacks from autistic mean girls with zero self awareness. Edit: FYI, people have flagged my follow up comment where I address the request for clarification to make it look like there is none. Just turn on showdead in your HN options to see. This is exactly the kind of playbook they love to use. Manipulati…

I've met and hung out quite a bit with Stallman (as part of a conference organizers group) in the early 2000s and he wasn't the most self aware person when it came to social situations. He is very socially awkward. Everything I've read so far has seemed plausible, although I would also agree that it seems to be blown out of proportion. He is one of the kindest persons I've met, very idealistic, and a captivating pers…

Do they still use the term socially awkward to describe nerdy people who work in IT? I thought it was quite on point, at least back in the days.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#155

Post by noobdev9000 »

y7 wrote: post #6

The main website has an explanation for the reasons behind this: https://crablang.org/ More context: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35583089

Rust was always a corporation/FAANG language when you looked at contributors and sponsors, so it's probably not real reason, I mean it is clear async was rushed out for AWS/Amazon and everyone celebrated it nonetheless.

People like to hide motives

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#156

Post by alkonaut »

Veen wrote: post #148
alkonaut wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politics is everywhere and everything. There is no chance of "keeping politics out of" anything. Making such a decision or rule is highly political too. This goes for sports, entertainment, culture, tech, open source.. The fact that there are "counterexamples" of successful projects that "thrive without involving politics and never had a CoC" isn't an argument to the contrary.

That's an interesting way of framing a position: "I think X and all the obvious counter-examples that might prove me wrong are irrelevant.", "Why are they irrelevant?", "Because I just said they are!". Anyway, you're equivocating around the meaning of "politics". Yes, everything involving people is political in some sense. But that isn't the sense people here are talking about.

I just preempted the usual answer "look at X, they don't have a lot of politics and they seem to be doing OK" because it's such an obvious non-argument that it shouldn't even need explaining.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#157

Post by detourdog »

pietro72ohboy wrote: post #66
codeflo wrote: post #35

For anyone critizing this: From the trademark bullshit to the conference drama, it's clear at this point that someone with influence in the Rust foundation is behaving like an asshole and damaging the project. That can happen in open source, see Stallman and others. It's also clear that others at the Rust foundation tolerate this behavior, downplay it, don't understand the impact, don't want to go against a "respecte…

> That can happen in open source, see Stallman and others. Could you elaborate on because I'm increasingly seeing Stallman being thrown around as a bogeyman who impeded FOSS progress for years if not decades and I really dislike this trend. It seems that his personal views (which I do not support) and eccentricity is being conflated with his contributions to FOSS. I will preface this by noting that this is "my belief…

Stallman is a pillar of our community for better or worse he insisted on the availability of a free c compiler with source code. He is too extreme for my tastes but deserves a base level of respect despite himself.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#158

Post by danielheath »

pietro72ohboy wrote: post #66
codeflo wrote: post #35

For anyone critizing this: From the trademark bullshit to the conference drama, it's clear at this point that someone with influence in the Rust foundation is behaving like an asshole and damaging the project. That can happen in open source, see Stallman and others. It's also clear that others at the Rust foundation tolerate this behavior, downplay it, don't understand the impact, don't want to go against a "respecte…

> That can happen in open source, see Stallman and others. Could you elaborate on because I'm increasingly seeing Stallman being thrown around as a bogeyman who impeded FOSS progress for years if not decades and I really dislike this trend. It seems that his personal views (which I do not support) and eccentricity is being conflated with his contributions to FOSS. I will preface this by noting that this is "my belief…

I'm thankful to Stallman for his many contributions to the field - (software, legal, moral writings, etc). I am better off for his work, as are most living humans.

However, there's a pretty large number of perfectly reasonable-seeming people who refuse to spend any time interacting with him, either in person or online. His reputation, fairly or otherwise, is terrible.

Maybe that's deserved, maybe it's undeserved - but it's the reputation he has, and that reputation is enough to seriously discourage people from getting involved in the FSF in any capacity.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#159

Post by denton-scratch »

preommr wrote: post #63

Branching projects and diversity is always good. But the reasons for this one are laughable. Formalising a trademark policy and a guy getting demoted to regular speaker insetad of keynote speaker? Seriously? People are screaming fascism over this?

> a guy getting demoted to regular speaker insetad of keynote speaker?

I don't think the issue was who the keynote speaker should be; as far as I can tell, it's the (lack of) process over that decision.

/me has no skin in this game.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#160

Post by HumanOstrich »

johnisgood wrote: post #128
pietro72ohboy wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That can happen in open source, see Stallman and others. Could you elaborate on because I'm increasingly seeing Stallman being thrown around as a bogeyman who impeded FOSS progress for years if not decades and I really dislike this trend. It seems that his personal views (which I do not support) and eccentricity is being conflated with his contributions to FOSS. I will preface this by noting that this is "my belief…

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36108633 [1] Guess who's the common denominator here? Yup. JeanHeyd. Such a small world. [1] https://gcc.gnu.org/pipermail/gcc/2021-March/235124.html

Yea, it's good to see someone consistently pushing back against hate and refusing to give up or be silenced.
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