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Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

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Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#131

Post by tombert »

devoutsalsa wrote: post #97
pydry wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He doesnt seem to be liked by some of the more powerful, corporate entities in tech, probably because he pushes some agendas that are somewhat anti-their-profits. I think this was behind the rather unsuccessful attempts to cancel him a few years ago, which cast a shadow over his reputation.

I heard Stallman speak once about FOSS. He struck me as a very interesting person, but not very flexible in his views. Even if he's 100% "right" in the long run about how digital products should be completely free, his views are so polarizing that it'd be hard to interact with him long enough to understand his positions.

I think there is value in people like Stallman existing. I disagree with him in a lot of regards, but I think it's important for people like him to shift the "Overton Window" of software copyright a bit closer to FOSS. He's a disagreeable bastard, I'm not even sure he would dispute that, but a part of me does respect the dedication to the cause.

That said, I almost always use BSD or MIT licenses for my personal stuff; sometimes I use the Eclipse one because that's the default that Leiningen gives me for Clojure and I can't really be bothered.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#132

Post by lelanthran »

alkonaut wrote: post #79
qersist3nce wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many years ago, I read a comment on Slashdot saying "the fact of a programming language having a "code of conduct" makes it ripe for everlasting drama and politics." It made sense then and it makes sense now.

The reason slashdot is no longer relevant as the go-to tech discussion site is just because everyone who loves hating on "modern" things like CoC stayed, and everyone else left. These days it would be more strange to see a major project NOT have a CoC than seeing one. There is drama and politics in any large org whether or not there is a CoC or not.

> The reason slashdot is no longer relevant as the go-to tech discussion site is just because everyone who loves hating on "modern" things like CoC stayed, and everyone else left.

That was certainly not my experience; I left because all discussions were monopolised by a few seemingly unemployed accounts to shame any and everyone into agreeing with whatever the vocal minority at the time was pushing.

When I stopped reading it, the only people left were those who were constantly using shaming language on anyone who didn't agree about things like a code of conduct, or words are violence too, etc.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#134

Post by yarg »

colesantiago wrote: post #59
p0w3n3d wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just look at LibreOffice. This is a fork of OpenOffice and OpenOffice is dead (at least to me)

OpenOffice isn't dead, they made a release a few months ago this year. https://blogs.apache.org/OOo/entry/announcing-apache-openoff... Last commit made 3 days ago, actively maintained. https://github.com/apache/openoffice

https://itsfoss.com/libreoffice-vs-openoffice/

> Technically, both receive regular updates. But, OpenOffice is limited to bug fixes and minor updates.

> LibreOffice has more development activity, frequent bug fixes/minor updates, regular major upgrades with newer features, and improved user experience.

Apache can do whatever they want here, but the project is limping at best.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#135

Post by arp242 »

Nanana909 wrote: post #68
codeflo wrote: post #35

For anyone critizing this: From the trademark bullshit to the conference drama, it's clear at this point that someone with influence in the Rust foundation is behaving like an asshole and damaging the project. That can happen in open source, see Stallman and others. It's also clear that others at the Rust foundation tolerate this behavior, downplay it, don't understand the impact, don't want to go against a "respecte…

Agree on all points. Something needs to change in the Rust foundation fundamentally. But as far as forks go this one seems quite low effort. Does the tactic work if the other side knows what you’re doing? From Ashley Williams, former founding member of the Rust Foundation (I don’t support her pretentious tone here)[1]: > "I don't think any of the folks who are part of it are language designers," said Williams. "They…

What a dismissive comment. I was unaware you're not able to work on a programming language until you get your Certified Language Designer™® certification.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#136

Post by modo_mario »

codeflo wrote: post #102
pietro72ohboy wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That can happen in open source, see Stallman and others. Could you elaborate on because I'm increasingly seeing Stallman being thrown around as a bogeyman who impeded FOSS progress for years if not decades and I really dislike this trend. It seems that his personal views (which I do not support) and eccentricity is being conflated with his contributions to FOSS. I will preface this by noting that this is "my belief…

> his personal views (which I do not support) and eccentricity Oh wow. That's some downplaying of the actual issue, which I won't make explicit because it's absolutely disgusting. The guy made himself and his foundation untouchable for anyone with a reputation to lose, leading to a lot of effort going into "de-GNU-ification" of technology stacks. > Stallman has been a positive force It's very hard to make this kind o…

>there's a whole history of Stallman intervention in the project and resulting idiotic architecture decisions behind why that's the case.

Could you expand on this? I still see him in a somewhat positive light because whilst his aspergers makes him not an optimal face to an organization his dogmatism regarding free software and the FSF's efforts in court and elsewhere have proven largely a good thing imo and I don't really fault him for his corporate opponents that stem from that. Meanwhile a lot of the accusations turned out weirdly fabricated which left me a bit of a bad taste, inconsequential or were regarding statements he'd apologized for and publicly changed his views on with explanation as to why and how.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#137

Post by eyko »

unconed wrote: post #116
kaba0 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> with his contributions to FOSS It is not as noteworthy as well known his name is. Especially if you count how many have stopped working on open-source projects because of him.

Can you name a few of these luminaries to see what we've lost? Most of what I've heard about Stallman are social attacks from autistic mean girls with zero self awareness. Edit: FYI, people have flagged my follow up comment where I address the request for clarification to make it look like there is none. Just turn on showdead in your HN options to see. This is exactly the kind of playbook they love to use. Manipulati…

I've met and hung out quite a bit with Stallman (as part of a conference organizers group) in the early 2000s and he wasn't the most self aware person when it came to social situations. He is very socially awkward. Everything I've read so far has seemed plausible, although I would also agree that it seems to be blown out of proportion. He is one of the kindest persons I've met, very idealistic, and a captivating personality. It's just super socially awkward being around him. Sometimes straight up uncomfortable.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#138

Post by Avamander »

jakear wrote: post #103
hurril wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, what is happening is a storm in a glass of water. _This_ is what is hurting the language and the environment. You have to protect trademarks or you lose them. Having a late change to a conference is definitely bad and sad but there is simply no need for that to imply a rage quit and all this drama. That is a non-sequiteur. Suck it up, make the talk on youtube (or somewhere else); I'm sure there are lots of people…

> You have to protect trademarks or you lose them. Let them be lost, who cares? It's not even a novel name, they just co-opted an existing word for their little gang and now don't want anyone else to use it. Even Oracle, the chief lawyer-assholes of the industry, have basically given up on trying to own "JavaScript", and that at least is a uniquely derived term.

> Let them be lost, who cares?

Users who don't want malware/abandonware. See more: Mumble.com and Mumble.info

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#140

Post by johnisgood »

exitb wrote: post #60
coffeeblack wrote: post #31

Interesting, how many negative comments this gets. People seem to love monoculture run by committees. This is exactly what OSS is all about. Take a code base and develop it into different directions. Both code and organization. And "natural selection" will have some forks die and others strife.

Stable project structure is a requirement to survive as an enterprise language, which everyone tries to make it into. It can live with the forks, but only as a toy language.

Toy... well, similarly to that of most Rust rewrites of long-established stable projects.
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