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A peek inside Japan's largest “Dagashi” store

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Re: A peek inside Japan's largest “Dagashi” store

#11

Post by midoridensha »

okdood64 wrote: post #5

It's incredible how much high quality restaurant food, groceries and snacks like these that Japan has had for a relatively low price as compared to other wealthy nations. It was quite noticeable for me the last 2 times I went to Tokyo/Kyoto/Osaka, as a visitor from the US, that food costs were pretty much never an issue. I guess the dollar being strong has something to do with that.

Restaurants in the US are absurdly expensive. Not only is the food expensive, but the 25% expected tip is ridiculous. (Tipping doesn't exist in Japan, and in Europe basically consists of rounding up, if any.) It's not just Japan; western Europe is also generally much cheaper for restaurants (when comparing similar quality).

One big difference I see between the two is the level of service expected. In the US, the waiters are constantly interrupting and bugging the customers, hoping for a bigger tip. In Europe and Japan, this doesn't happen; you need to signal to your server that you need something, and there generally seems to be less staff as a result, which reduces costs.

Basically, this is just another way that America is broken compared to the rest of the developed world, and it's not just the strength of the dollar.

Re: A peek inside Japan's largest “Dagashi” store

#12

Post by sheepdestroyer »

lmm wrote: post #10
creamyhorror wrote: post #8

It's always bittersweet when I visit Japan and come across old establishments or traditions that an ageing proprietor or volunteers are trying to keep going. You can see the love and spirit they have for it, but it often looks like something too disconnected from the interests of young people and the vicissitudes of the changing economy to survive for much longer. A kissaten (old-style cafe) owner in Nagasaki who sha…

Meh. Dagashi are... not great. (And frankly the same is true of jazz). You can get nicer stuff from any 7-eleven, consistently, and whether the staff member cares is (thankfully) not really relevant. Stores that sell something people actually want can and do thrive (by charging a premium if necessary), and that includes a lot of traditions that people value because they're traditional, but when it comes to something…

Yeah, most of these things are extremely processed low quality stuff, very high in salt/sugar and additives. Even for the interesting snacks like dried calamari or candied kelp for instance, you'd have far better options buying from a normal supermarket.

Re: A peek inside Japan's largest “Dagashi” store

#13

Post by timlod »

minebreaker wrote: post #4
jaipilot747 wrote: post #2

> "Very few people know that I had to do that thing which no business owner should ever do – lay people off. And I've had to do it twice." The difference in how other countries view laying people off, contrasted with the US labor market is worth highlighting. I understand the arguments about how at-will employment brings flexibility and opportunity for both employers and employees but seeing a CEO feel actually respo…

> seeing a CEO feel actually responsible for his employees in a downsizing is refreshing Too naive. This is a Japanese way of saying "I don't give a shit."

I don't think it is, not for a business such as the one described in the article. I'm currently living in Japan, and in a relatively short amount of time I've personally met several business owners who might have acted similarly, sincerely.

There is a large amount of small and niche businesses here which are not profit-driven.

Re: A peek inside Japan's largest “Dagashi” store

#14

Post by techsupporter »

midoridensha wrote: post #11
okdood64 wrote: post #5

It's incredible how much high quality restaurant food, groceries and snacks like these that Japan has had for a relatively low price as compared to other wealthy nations. It was quite noticeable for me the last 2 times I went to Tokyo/Kyoto/Osaka, as a visitor from the US, that food costs were pretty much never an issue. I guess the dollar being strong has something to do with that.

Restaurants in the US are absurdly expensive. Not only is the food expensive, but the 25% expected tip is ridiculous. (Tipping doesn't exist in Japan, and in Europe basically consists of rounding up, if any.) It's not just Japan; western Europe is also generally much cheaper for restaurants (when comparing similar quality). One big difference I see between the two is the level of service expected. In the US, the wait…

> In the US, the waiters are constantly interrupting and bugging the customers, hoping for a bigger tip. In Europe and Japan, this doesn't happen; you need to signal to your server that you need something...

There are restaurants in Seattle that I've stopped visiting for anything beyond takeaway because my wife and I can't hold a conversation for more than a few minutes without being interrupted. It is very frustrating.

On the other hand, when we have taken friends to the places we like that are far more laid back, at least one person has commented on how the service is "poor" or "inattentive." I think we are culturally used to being asked if we need service and are reticent to go find help or do for ourselves (except when it comes to using a machine at the grocery). So I'm not sure it's solely in search of a better tip, except that everything in a US restaurant is for that.

Foodservice in Europe, broadly, is one of those amazing but unexpected things I tell people who are preparing to travel for the first time to really look at and try to enjoy. It's wonderful, in my opinion.

Re: A peek inside Japan's largest “Dagashi” store

#15

Post by danielscrubs »

okdood64 wrote: post #5

It's incredible how much high quality restaurant food, groceries and snacks like these that Japan has had for a relatively low price as compared to other wealthy nations. It was quite noticeable for me the last 2 times I went to Tokyo/Kyoto/Osaka, as a visitor from the US, that food costs were pretty much never an issue. I guess the dollar being strong has something to do with that.

I got the feeling it has to do with rent and taxes, owning your own establishment helps. Being able to keep open even with few customers would drain all your resources within the same year in my city, but you hear these stories of businesses keeping open in Japan with prime real estate just because. I like that a lot, instead of the “everything is a chain” where I live.

Im not sure why real estate moguls don’t have a field day, buying everything they see. Anyone knows? Is it the earthquakes and tsunamis? Exponential taxes on owning several properties?

Re: A peek inside Japan's largest “Dagashi” store

#16

Post by danielscrubs »

minebreaker wrote: post #4
jaipilot747 wrote: post #2

> "Very few people know that I had to do that thing which no business owner should ever do – lay people off. And I've had to do it twice." The difference in how other countries view laying people off, contrasted with the US labor market is worth highlighting. I understand the arguments about how at-will employment brings flexibility and opportunity for both employers and employees but seeing a CEO feel actually respo…

> seeing a CEO feel actually responsible for his employees in a downsizing is refreshing Too naive. This is a Japanese way of saying "I don't give a shit."

Weekly afterworks and 12 hours work a day will force you to feel like a family wether you like it or not.

Also if your mindset festers they will stop being polite which is way worse.

Re: A peek inside Japan's largest “Dagashi” store

#17

Post by rale00 »

danielscrubs wrote: post #15
okdood64 wrote: post #5

It's incredible how much high quality restaurant food, groceries and snacks like these that Japan has had for a relatively low price as compared to other wealthy nations. It was quite noticeable for me the last 2 times I went to Tokyo/Kyoto/Osaka, as a visitor from the US, that food costs were pretty much never an issue. I guess the dollar being strong has something to do with that.

I got the feeling it has to do with rent and taxes, owning your own establishment helps. Being able to keep open even with few customers would drain all your resources within the same year in my city, but you hear these stories of businesses keeping open in Japan with prime real estate just because. I like that a lot, instead of the “everything is a chain” where I live. Im not sure why real estate moguls don’t have a…

The real estate bubble in the 80s probably still has a lot to do with it. It took 2 decades for real estate prices to start to recover at all.

Re: A peek inside Japan's largest “Dagashi” store

#18

Post by reaperman »

lmm wrote: post #10
creamyhorror wrote: post #8

It's always bittersweet when I visit Japan and come across old establishments or traditions that an ageing proprietor or volunteers are trying to keep going. You can see the love and spirit they have for it, but it often looks like something too disconnected from the interests of young people and the vicissitudes of the changing economy to survive for much longer. A kissaten (old-style cafe) owner in Nagasaki who sha…

Meh. Dagashi are... not great. (And frankly the same is true of jazz). You can get nicer stuff from any 7-eleven, consistently, and whether the staff member cares is (thankfully) not really relevant. Stores that sell something people actually want can and do thrive (by charging a premium if necessary), and that includes a lot of traditions that people value because they're traditional, but when it comes to something…

Is there any live music you like at a social establishment? With musicians. Or is it all … not great, to you?

Re: A peek inside Japan's largest “Dagashi” store

#19

Post by lmm »

reaperman wrote: post #18
lmm wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh. Dagashi are... not great. (And frankly the same is true of jazz). You can get nicer stuff from any 7-eleven, consistently, and whether the staff member cares is (thankfully) not really relevant. Stores that sell something people actually want can and do thrive (by charging a premium if necessary), and that includes a lot of traditions that people value because they're traditional, but when it comes to something…

Is there any live music you like at a social establishment? With musicians. Or is it all … not great, to you?

I like plenty of live music yeah (folk, idol pop, metal, ...). That kind of "jazz cafe" doesn't usually do live music though, so I'm a bit confused by the question.

Re: A peek inside Japan's largest “Dagashi” store

#20

Post by janalsncm »

okdood64 wrote: post #5

It's incredible how much high quality restaurant food, groceries and snacks like these that Japan has had for a relatively low price as compared to other wealthy nations. It was quite noticeable for me the last 2 times I went to Tokyo/Kyoto/Osaka, as a visitor from the US, that food costs were pretty much never an issue. I guess the dollar being strong has something to do with that.

I have thought about this almost every time I have visited other countries (usually in Asia). Many times there are a number of employees standing around “doing nothing”. In America that would be considered fat to be trimmed. But the number of times I have walked around a big box store in the US trying to find someone who works there makes me feel that the American model actually cheapens the experience and having redundant employees allows the store to adapt to varying traffic flows. Americans seem to be used to this hollowing out but I don’t like it. Stores should not be vending machines.

Anyways, I would really like to see a breakdown of costs between an American restaurant and various foreign ones. I suspect floor space cost is a big part of the difference.

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