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Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

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Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#431

Post by throw_m239339 »

jlawson wrote: post #416
throw_m239339 wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really couldn't care less about Pornhub and any other digital pimps that made money off revenge porn and CSAM for decades. I'll never feel sorry for them, its executives are rich and without a conscience. > The small organization that helped bring the porn industry to its knees https://www.godreports.com/2022/12/the-small-organization-th... > How Pornhub – one of the world's biggest sites – caused untold damage and…

So you want to hurt the people you dislike, and (presumably) help the people you like. That's fine, but please understand that some of us believe it's worth having principles. We think it's better for society and humanity if people think above the dislike=hurt/like=help dichotomy.

> So you want to hurt the people you dislike, and (presumably) help the people you like.

Yes I dislike those who profit from CSAM and revenge porn, "it's just an app" doesn't change the horror of their actions. It's kind of a lowbar when it comes to principles, don't you think? Do you care about the people they hurt in their very flesh? The people who killed themselves as the result of sex exploitation?

> We think it's better for society and humanity if people think above the dislike=hurt/like=help dichotomy.

Both revenge born and CSAM are illegal, there is no dichotomy here.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#433

Post by dahart »

jameshart wrote: post #140
noduerme wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what are the main benefits of going fully cashless One piece of advice I got a long time ago, from a family member in politics: Don't put your groceries on a credit card. Especially if you buy junk food or alcohol. Obviously the same goes for bars, tobacco, strip clubs, gun purchases[0], and lots of other perfectly legal things that you might not want being counted up if you ever run for office. At the systemic lev…

What's the basis for this advice? Personally I'd be far more interested to learn that someone running for office refuses to use a credit card to buy groceries because they fear having that information collected and used against them... than that they once spent $500 in a single month on Twinkies. If someone wants to use your spending history against you they don't actually need your credit card bills these days, they…

A friend who worked in credit finance many years ago warned me they were “thinking” (wink wink) about doing things like selling your food purchase history to medical insurance companies for the purposes of declining claims on the basis of long-term bad eating habits. I believe it was and still is illegal, but if corporations are allowed to do this, then they will, and it’s worth it to them.

I wouldn’t conflate political shenanigans and things that make the news with systemic forces. Made up things don’t always, or even often, pass muster in court. But true information being lawfully used against you will result in no legal recourse.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#434

Post by Am4TIfIsER0ppos »

walterbell wrote: post #376
Am4TIfIsER0ppos wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36117704 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36117435 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36117805 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36116663 Then there are the people defending the steps to the cashless society because those steps happened to be on people they didn't like: canadian truckers and pornhub. I recall one explicit comment I can't find now so I am willing to believ…

Those are people arguing for cash-less society. > No one is arguing for a cash-only society. My statement was about the opposite, i.e. co-existence rather than exclusion :)

My bad. I completely misread your comment. I am sorry for that.

Let me be the first to argue for it. Electronic money is horrible. It obscures how much you're really spending on things. It requires a middle man in every transaction skimming a bit off the top. One company runs all the debit payments here. Mastercard and Visa used to split the credit card market but I assume they colluded to monopolize on on MC here. The government has passed laws demanding business partake in the racket but nothing to require acceptance of cash. Cash not accepted for public transport. Laws stating a maximum value of a transaction that is permitted in cash but have never increased the limit while they've been inflating the value away.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#435

Post by pdonis »

lazide wrote: post #364
codehalo wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't know if the money was used for trafficking. Are you reading what you are writing?

Are you reading what you are writing? People can (and do) know things without having enough evidence to stand up in court. It’s how 99% of everything works, frankly. Banks right now are denying transactions because they ‘know’ it’s fraud, based on ML models and probability and no other evidence. If you require someone to not ‘know’ something until they have enough evidence they could prove it in court, they won’t be…

> People can (and do) know things without having enough evidence to stand up in court.

But "people" cannot use that knowledge to deny access to money to other people if they don't have evidence that can stand up in court. Yet banks can. That is wrong. That is giving banks too much power without accountability. Yes, some of the entities they cut off will "deserve it", at least in your eyes; but many others won't. We already know how this plays out: it's the same every time a centralized entity wants more power. They claim it's to "protect" us against something, but it's really just to enrich them at our expense. Don't take the bait.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#436

Post by dahart »

red-iron-pine wrote: post #209
jameshart wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the basis for this advice? Personally I'd be far more interested to learn that someone running for office refuses to use a credit card to buy groceries because they fear having that information collected and used against them... than that they once spent $500 in a single month on Twinkies. If someone wants to use your spending history against you they don't actually need your credit card bills these days, they…

> What's the basis for this advice? "The GoBeRmEnT Is GoNa TrAcK YoU" Listen, you got a cell phone, and chances are that's going to give away far, far more than data that your credit card company holds on to. They're just going to have a line -- "Food Lion, [Date] $88.23" -- not detailed list of your purchases. Meanwhile if you use a membership card at any sort of grocery store, they absolutely will associate it with…

It’s not the government that concerns me, it’s the corporations. And I don’t think it’s a contest or even matters if cell phones give more data. I’m worried about both.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#437

Post by [deleted] »

lazide wrote: post #312
throwuwu wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who controls the central bank in Brazil? Who can implement changes to this system? How much PII is recorded with each transaction and who can view it?

Don’t forget ‘what happens when the gov’t changes to someone who doesn’t like you’

[deleted]

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#439

Post by MagicMoonlight »

Honestly I don't really care about the freedom argument anymore. If the government wants they can just black bag you anyway. And we all know how many time leftists have had someone "deplatformed" from money for thinking wrong. It just doesn't make a difference.

What it would make a difference with is crime. All the drug dealing, child prostitution and money laundering from those businesses would be fucked overnight. Sure they can still do it, but it's a hell of a lot harder when everything is recorded. All it takes is one break in the case and suddenly you've got every single financial record and you've wiped out 10b in criminal profit. That would hugely benefit the world.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#440

Post by lazide »

pdonis wrote: post #435
lazide wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you reading what you are writing? People can (and do) know things without having enough evidence to stand up in court. It’s how 99% of everything works, frankly. Banks right now are denying transactions because they ‘know’ it’s fraud, based on ML models and probability and no other evidence. If you require someone to not ‘know’ something until they have enough evidence they could prove it in court, they won’t be…

> People can (and do) know things without having enough evidence to stand up in court. But "people" cannot use that knowledge to deny access to money to other people if they don't have evidence that can stand up in court. Yet banks can. That is wrong. That is giving banks too much power without accountability. Yes, some of the entities they cut off will "deserve it", at least in your eyes; but many others won't. We a…

Since banks are the ones who control access to money, and banks are doing it, who are these other people that you are talking about that aren’t allowed to do it?

Banks are doing this at the behest of the gov’t.

Oh, and those sanctions and the like - what do you think they actually look like paperwork wise?

You seem to be arguing that what is, isn’t?

If you want to say that what is, is bad, then hey I’m not arguing against that! I’m just pointing out what is going on right now in front of us, and has been for a very long time.

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