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Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

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Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#311

Post by lottin »

standardUser wrote: post #251
lottin wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, this is a lot of nonsense. Any government that has the ability to prevent dissidents from paying for stuff also has the ability to employ much more brutal and effective methods of quashing dissidence.

Not really. Elaborate black markets exist and thrive all over the world. Maybe in the most brutally restrictive regimes they can truly ban something people want. But the rule across most societies is: ban something people want, then an unregulated black market will fill the void, regardless of laws, and will probably bring otherwise avoidable violence.

Yeah, I agree... that's what I'm saying, it's ineffective.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#312

Post by lazide »

throwuwu wrote: post #277
rsaesha wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an option: a direct payment system provided by the Central Bank to the general public. In Brazil it is called PIX, and was implemented in 2020. Last month it has processed more than 3 million operations. Works 24/7, 0 fees to end users, low cost for business. IMO, going cashless is not an "if", it is a "when". https://www.bcb.gov.br/en/financialstability/pix_en

Who controls the central bank in Brazil? Who can implement changes to this system? How much PII is recorded with each transaction and who can view it?

Don’t forget ‘what happens when the gov’t changes to someone who doesn’t like you’

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#313

Post by zmgsabst »

Aunche wrote: post #214
mc32 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also the threat to civil liberties was exposed in Canada when the government saw it fit to freeze people's bank accounts. I believe this is being reviewed and maybe something will come of it so that the gov is not allowed to cavalierly freeze accounts in the future, but you can see how even liberal people are ready to violate people's civil liberties when they see it fit. It's like principles are only followed when t…

Would you prefer if they ended the blockades through more forceful means, even if that would escalate into violence?

The usage of the Emergencies Act didn’t end any blockades — those had already ended through other means.

It was used to disperse people from protesting at the capitol, because the government wanted to crush people protesting without talking to them and not any imminent threat. People who were only parked in the street with signs, gathered together to demand a change in policy.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#314

Post by DiscourseFan »

noduerme wrote: post #46
shishy wrote: post #10

Cash is great. Can't be tracked, credit card companies don't get to discriminate against the poor and create negative feedback loop traps that they can't out of, it's easier to be financially responsible with it. Bit unfortunate too that paying with cash just adds a tax onto the poor since the fees are basically priced into goods sold at stores, typically regardless of whether or not cash is used. But yeah, nice to h…

> what are the main benefits of going fully cashless One piece of advice I got a long time ago, from a family member in politics: Don't put your groceries on a credit card. Especially if you buy junk food or alcohol. Obviously the same goes for bars, tobacco, strip clubs, gun purchases[0], and lots of other perfectly legal things that you might not want being counted up if you ever run for office. At the systemic lev…

Well many (not sure if all) strip clubs are basically legal brothels that run on cash specifically because a) they are (usually) in with local organized crime and b) so when the girls get their "tips" they can't be scrutinized about what service they provided to acquire it.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#315

Post by lazide »

yesbut wrote: post #306
throwuwu wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who controls the central bank in Brazil? Who can implement changes to this system? How much PII is recorded with each transaction and who can view it?

I'm not familiar with Brazil's system, but moving a central bank to being democratically controlled is betterbthan leaving this in the hands of a private company. The US central bank isn't currently democratically controlled, but it could be. Then collectively we could decide how a Brazil type system should function. People are better served when their banks aren't run for-profit.

Until it’s politically uncool to be you, and the gov’t bans your ability to buy food. The Nazi’s got elected in their first time, democratically (ish).

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#316

Post by scarface_74 »

cortesoft wrote: post #274
tchaffee wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if it's for human trafficking? Payment processors are made up of people, and people have to have the freedom of drawing a moral line they won't cross. The real problem as I see it is that payment processing is a near monopoly. Better competition and smaller players would almost guarantee that every transaction except the most egregious would have a willing payment processor. Diversity is so often the best answer…

If you know it is for human trafficking, why would you cut off the payment instead of arresting the people?

Because you can’t arrest people that are out of the jurisdiction. It’s much easier to find the victims than the perpetrators.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#317

Post by jameshart »

shishy wrote: post #166
jameshart wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the basis for this advice? Personally I'd be far more interested to learn that someone running for office refuses to use a credit card to buy groceries because they fear having that information collected and used against them... than that they once spent $500 in a single month on Twinkies. If someone wants to use your spending history against you they don't actually need your credit card bills these days, they…

I interpreted it more as “it’s a trail of information that could be used against you” instead of literally, but I could be wrong

If you look at the recent history of scandals that have had zero to negative reputational impact on politicians and public figures in Western democracies - we’re talking Access Hollywood, tax fraud, undeclared gifts, gross nepotism, punching journalists, flouting public health laws, sexual impropriety, lying about your career and life story, mishandling of classified information, and just plain incompetence - what on earth do you think the harm could be of someone getting hold of someone’s old credit card bills?

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#319

Post by neves »

lazide wrote: post #300
cortesoft wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you know it is for human trafficking, why would you cut off the payment instead of arresting the people?

Because arresting people requires evidence and due process, which is work.

If there's no evidence or due process, then you don't know.
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