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Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

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Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#71

Post by raverbashing »

raincom wrote: post #49
incone123 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a cost to handling cash too. Don't know how it compares to cards but with the latter you don't need to have fleets of armored trucks to move money around and robbers can only steal stock.

The cost is not so much about paying armored trucks, but most banks don't want to deal with small businesses that deal with cash.

I swear money handling cost will be reduced by one simple thing that some countries like Canada and Ireland have done (and can be improved): ditch the smaller coin denominations (and maybe add higher denomination coins like $2 like EU and UK have)

Anything under 10 cents gets rounded down/up accordingly

It doesn't matter. Minting and transporting it, even in your pocket costs more than you'll ever get in dealing a more "precise" denomination

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#72

Post by danpalmer »

jon-wood wrote: post #37
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could a website function with cash payments at all?

Mullvad have made it work, but it’s definitely not smooth. I believe their process is to assign a unique ID to your invoice, which you can then write on an envelope stuffed with cash you mail to the correct address. On receipt they match your cash with the invoice and mark it as paid.

This might work but sending cash in the mail is a pretty terrible idea. Most postal services strongly discourage it, or you're using recorded services which are expensive and add all the same tracking issues.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#73

Post by hospitalhusband »

cschneid wrote: post #58
shishy wrote: post #10

Cash is great. Can't be tracked, credit card companies don't get to discriminate against the poor and create negative feedback loop traps that they can't out of, it's easier to be financially responsible with it. Bit unfortunate too that paying with cash just adds a tax onto the poor since the fees are basically priced into goods sold at stores, typically regardless of whether or not cash is used. But yeah, nice to h…

Not sure on the fees part of that - cash handling itself is expensive, both for direct reasons, and anti-theft reasons. Anywhere from time spent counting drawers to full-on armored car service. All of that is expensive, and not present when credit cards are used (and conversely, a network fee doesn't exist on cash). I think all payment methods end up with some costs to them.

Chargebacks and processing fees are expensive too.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#74

Post by kredd »

londons_explore wrote: post #56
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could a website function with cash payments at all?

If you visit Georgia (the country, not the state), they have a cool system for cash payments to websites. You go on the website, order your stuff. When the normal payment screen that comes up, instead of Mastercard or visa, you choose "Cash". You'll then be sent a text message with a number (or the number appears on the screen if you don't have a phone). You go to any ATM anywhere in the country, put that number into…

That is still depended on some sort of payment rails though, no? Bank, government or whoever can decline transactions to that “cash” action.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#75

Post by Animatronio »

mrtranscendence wrote: post #52
Animatronio wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are these really inconveniences? Most of the times I've had trouble paying for stuff were usually at supermarkets or gas stations where the credit card reader would refuse to acknowledge my card. Swiping/inserting/touching, not even cursing worked so without cash on hand I'd have had to surrender my ID to the clerk, take a cab to the closest ATM and return with cash.

I was an early adopter of (debit) card only, using it for everything in 1999. Your experience has never happened to me, as far as I recall. I don’t think I’ve ever had to go to an atm because the reader didn’t work.

Well, it happened to me just the other day - said it cannot read the card or something like that (even though I had used it less than 15 minutes earlier in another shop). There was already a queue behind me so I forked $40 for gas and went on my way.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#76

Post by frfsfgxffd »

scoofy wrote: post #66
thegrim33 wrote: post #47

The primary benefit of cashless is pretty much just the ability to be lazy. You swipe a card in a reader instead of having to count out cash. That's the major benefit. All things being equal, sure, it's more convenient. But all things are not equal; in my opinion the potential negatives that others in the thread have listed overwhelmingly outweigh the ability to be more lazy. That so many people have the desire to di…

The fact that getting mugged is so uncommon these days shows how naive this comment is to the second and third order effects of a cashless society. I think cash should always be an option, but I don’t pretend that cards haven’t dramatically improved our lives.

Brazil is almost cashless today.

first month with central bank digital currency, instant kidnaps were thru the roof.

the "solution" lower limits of how much you can transfer. what a joke.

now only 100usd per day can leave your pocket. wish i was kidding. even lower at night when traveling i have to wake up at 3am to make payments thanks to timezones.

people can raise limits, but if you pay for something expensive once you're probably marked forever as having lots of money in your pocket. with cash, that would be a one time opportunity to be robbed. with cashless, you signaled that forever you're a good target.

there's zero benefits for safety.

you fell for the oldest trick in the book.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#77

Post by itake »

londons_explore wrote: post #56
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could a website function with cash payments at all?

If you visit Georgia (the country, not the state), they have a cool system for cash payments to websites. You go on the website, order your stuff. When the normal payment screen that comes up, instead of Mastercard or visa, you choose "Cash". You'll then be sent a text message with a number (or the number appears on the screen if you don't have a phone). You go to any ATM anywhere in the country, put that number into…

on a similar note, you can buy airplane tickets online and then pay cash at any 7-11 before your flight.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#78

Post by dataflow »

thegrim33 wrote: post #47

The primary benefit of cashless is pretty much just the ability to be lazy. You swipe a card in a reader instead of having to count out cash. That's the major benefit. All things being equal, sure, it's more convenient. But all things are not equal; in my opinion the potential negatives that others in the thread have listed overwhelmingly outweigh the ability to be more lazy. That so many people have the desire to di…

> You swipe a card in a reader instead of having to count out cash. That's the major benefit.

It's not just the counting out part that's inconvenient, and it's not just cash. There's also receiving some arbitrary amount of cash and coins that you then have to dump into your pocket/wallet/purse and deal with until your next shopping trip. Coins dangling in your pocket and having to fish them out every time while making sure you don't lose them beforehand is not exactly fun.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#79

Post by standardUser »

medler wrote: post #36
standardUser wrote: post #9

On a recent trip to Europe I didn't take out cash once over 3 weeks across 3 countries. I brought 50 euros with me and that was all I needed! Everything else was just a quick tap of the phone, including every metro system outside of Paris. My only hesitation to getting rid of cash entirely - how will I buy drugs? I don't gamble illegally or pay for sex, but I imagine those services would also struggle in an increasin…

If the only argument against getting rid of cash is that it would make it harder to commit crimes, that sounds like a good reason to get rid of cash. I like cash because I like my privacy but cash making it easier to do crime is an unfortunate side effect, not an end in itself.

Many people see laws against victmimless activities to be a direct curtailment of basic human rights. Even in our own lifetime we've seen completely arbitrary changes to which substances and banned or not banned, so we should be extremely wary of future, similarly arbitrary changes (that we can easily get around using cash).

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#80

Post by Frondo »

shishy wrote: post #10

Cash is great. Can't be tracked, credit card companies don't get to discriminate against the poor and create negative feedback loop traps that they can't out of, it's easier to be financially responsible with it. Bit unfortunate too that paying with cash just adds a tax onto the poor since the fees are basically priced into goods sold at stores, typically regardless of whether or not cash is used. But yeah, nice to h…

As for can't be tracked, does anyone else remember that website you used to see stamped on dollar bills, WheresGeorge.com? Early internet goofiness, crowd-sourced tracking of cash.
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