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India ruling party's IT cell used AI to show smile on arrested protesters' faces

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Re: India ruling party's IT cell used AI to show smile on arrested protesters' faces

#161

Post by juujian »

api wrote: post #146
lolinder wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This phase won't last long in the grand scheme of things. We've had about 150 years in which people have been conditioned to trust anything that they see in a photograph, but it's always been possible to fake it and for the last 30 years it's been getting dramatically easier. AI just brings us full circle back to the era of woodcuts—just because you see a photorealistic image or hear an audio recording does not mean…

The era of easy to reproduce but hard to fake media is actually the historical outlier. Before that media was written text and everyone knows anyone can make up anything they want in that domain. Before that most people were illiterate so it didn’t matter much. Media wasn’t even much of a thing. We are headed for the post-media era when any arbitrary piece of media depicting anything can be created for little or no m…

> Before that media was written text and everyone knows anyone can make up anything they want in that domain.

From what I gather, Julius Caesar's Commentarii de Bello Gallico was pretty much fanfiction (had somebody write?) about himself. This problem may be older than I thought.

Re: India ruling party's IT cell used AI to show smile on arrested protesters' faces

#162

Post by ryandrake »

gtirloni wrote: post #66
matsemann wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And those having seen the doctored images wont know (or care) that they were fake.

Exactly. Even when a major TV channels was busting fake news in my country, people just switched to other govt-sponsored (bribed?) channel to hear what they wanted to hear. It became a common meme to say that major TV channel has an agenda (and either silence or whataboustism ensues once people are questioned about the actual fake news).

People will always switch to the brand of media that shows the truth that validates their existing beliefs. Today, there are a handful of "belief buckets" to choose from. In the USA, you have conservative news channels and mainstream news channels. You can pick your favorite source of truth, but they come as a package deal. If you strongly believe X is factual, you'll tune in to the channel that presents X as factual. That channel will also present Y and Z as factual, so you may slowly start believing Y and Z, too.

The obvious end state of this all will be news channels customized per-person. It's already starting with the custom-tailored Facebook/Twitter feeds. If you personally believe A, Y, and C, but not X, B, or Z, your news reports will be customized to show A, Y, and C as factual and ridicule X, B, and Z. Someone else will get presented an entirely different set of facts. Once the algorithm knows your beliefs, AI can produce an unlimited number of articles confirming those beliefs, complete with photos, videos, sources, fact checks, official reports and references.

Re: India ruling party's IT cell used AI to show smile on arrested protesters' faces

#163

Post by flir »

prox wrote: post #112
flir wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or build walled gardens inside the connected world. Dunbar's number, right?

Interesting, what are your views on that?

I've only thought about it superficially. I think web of trust is a better model for how humans work, but whenever someone tries to translate it to the digital world it fails.

(Lets call this approach digital villages for the sake of argument).

We have lots of examples of digital villages working - forums, subreddits, chatrooms, MUDs, etc etc. Maybe it's a case of worse is better? Or maybe everyone who implements web of trust immediately tries to jam crypto in there and turns off all the normal people? What do you think?

Re: India ruling party's IT cell used AI to show smile on arrested protesters' faces

#164

Post by praveen9920 »

ta_vf7xjd34cc wrote: post #135
praveen9920 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever wondered why these "laws" were not repealed or even questioned by the ruling party in the last 9 years, even with an overwhelming majority in parliament?

For the same reason that the Republicans continue believing, in the face of overwhelming evidence, that they have a chance with black voters. No matter what the BJP tries, they will never get more than 10-15% of the Muslim vote. Hindus accept laws contrary to their interests. Muslims come out on the streets and arm twist their political beneficiaries into reversing judgements and acts that they perceive to be against…

There are ways of engaging with communities in democracy, rather than creating laws which one group ( majority ) think is right. which is not a great suite of the current ruling party, to be honest. Farmer laws, demonetization etc are some of examples.

BTW, If a party cannot do what is required for the country, they probably are not right for ruling the country.

Re: India ruling party's IT cell used AI to show smile on arrested protesters' faces

#165

Post by shri_krishna »

dagmx wrote: post #115
screye wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a conundrum, because the same NRIs oppose bills that would solve India's problems. The ban on crop burning (main cause of Delhi's pollution) was central to the farm bill. But protesting farmers (widely supported in the west) opposed it, and the bill died despite having democratic approval (both national opinion and sufficient votes) > dared to vote a great scientist to president We do not vote for Presidents in…

I corrected the means by which the president is chosen (it’s a vote by the electoral college so it wasn’t completely incorrect to say vote though). Thanks for mentioning that. I don’t think I agree with your other points. But I do hope your optimism pans out because right now things feel bleak.

The reality on ground is different from what you read in the press or even online. We see the work being done. When work wasn't being done (recent example of Karnataka), people voted BJP out. The alternative (Congress) came to power promising loads of freebies. Now voters on the ground are pissed off (plenty of videos where people are not willing to pay electricity bills or public transport fares because Congress said it'll make all of that free but never did so till date). So this hyperbole on BJP being "evil" is largely overblown and it is quite persistent in the Hacker News circles. Ultimately the voter decides based on whether the Party in power delivers or not. BJP has been doing great work on the infrastructure/development front as well as attracting investment. That is visible on the ground. What BJP is lacking severely is in State level leadership/politics which needs to be fixed. Congress on the other hand has given up its National ambitions and pursuing weaknesses it sees in BJP's state level politics. This is vibrancy of democracy. Nothing to feel "bleak" about unless you are drowning yourself in anti-India Western media reports and thinking that is the truth. Maybe you need to ask yourself if you are also part of a misinformation bubble yourself without even realizing it?

Re: India ruling party's IT cell used AI to show smile on arrested protesters' faces

#166

Post by jonhohle »

pjc50 wrote: post #84
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. The postmodernists (as I understand them) have been talking about "post truth" and "claims of truth are just assertions of power". And I've always thought that their position was insane. Now they look more like prophets. That world is increasingly the world we live in. The question becomes, how can we stay sane in that world? How can we find enough actual truth (truth that is actually true , true in the old sen…

> That world is increasingly the world we live in I think the point of the postmodernists was that was always the world we live in, it's just that the Internet has made it much more visible and we can see the fraying and the contradictions. It's just that, for a fairly narrow window of time and societies, there was enough of an honor culture about being caught lying that the discourse-reality matched fairly well the…

I think you capture it, but to make it clear, post-modernism existed before the Internet.

I’ve never considered the post-truth perspective as having anything to do with intentional misrepresentation, but rather relativism (which is dangerous in other ways, imho). Outright lying has been used by authoritarians, but it really seems like we need a term to describe societies controlled by blatant, obvious lies (which is where I would consider the US at the moment). People like to use fascism, Marxism, etc., but those used similar techniques, for very different ends.

Re: India ruling party's IT cell used AI to show smile on arrested protesters' faces

#167

Post by cornflake23 »

The intriguing part of such stuff is how the impact of these things is both short and long, such asymmetry of the individual vs the state. At the (population) scale of India, this is particularly heinous.

In the near term, it is designed to mislead the public perception. In the long term, it both creates a chilling effect of what consequences protesting may have… and will anyone remember that these pictures were manipulated “for effect” decades from now? Will they fuel other echo chambers?

I very much doubt the public understands the precipice (and precedents) that these malicious actions lead us all down.

Re: India ruling party's IT cell used AI to show smile on arrested protesters' faces

#168

Post by Drakim »

tdehnel wrote: post #131
ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #37

What's with India and the shift towards the right? I thought it had too many religions and different cultures to pull this off.

Why would diversity necessarily be associated with leftism?

There is no "necessarily" about it, but it's obviously how history ended up unfolding. The big cultural-media-pop conflict in the west this very moment is centered around acceptance of diversity regarding gay and trans folks.

Re: India ruling party's IT cell used AI to show smile on arrested protesters' faces

#169

Post by sremani »

borissk wrote: post #18

India slowly joining China, Russia and Turkey as a dictatorship...

Hold your horses, this is false equivalence. India is no where near China or Russia, Turkey may be closest thing but that is also kind of false. State governments in India are powerful and that complicates many things.

Re: India ruling party's IT cell used AI to show smile on arrested protesters' faces

#170

Post by codegeek »

capableweb wrote: post #8

> Verified account @wokeflix_ tweeted the same image in a meme > Verified account @randomsena tweeted the same image > Another verified account, @RealAtulsay, tweeted the same image Isn't "Verified" on Twitter just a subscription now, meaning it's just that these people have given Twitter money? Why it matters (in a journalistic sense) who has paid Twitter or not? And why are only some of the verified accounts mentio…

Yea. the moment Elon started charging for the blue tick, it became useless and I wouldn't pay for it anymore unless I really want to use the extra goodies that it provides which I don't need personally.
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