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The town is no longer friendly for business

swombat.com

111–119 of 119 posts

Re: The town is no longer friendly for business

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say Nazi. I said fascist. If I mean the "United States is converting toward a right-wing authoritarian regime", then fascism is the correct word for this. Arguing the semantics of this word, or saying I shouldn't use that word because of its associations, really does not make my opinion less valid, and doesn't make any argument to the contrary.

Fascism is characterised by promoting the state over individual interests, the forcible suppression of the opposition, all generally accompanied by a suspension of the rule of law. Some of this is happening here, but it's a long way down the slippery slope. Calling the US fascist as hyperbole for emotional impact is fine. But it sounds like a lot of people believe the US is actually fascist. My grandparents fled acro…

You're arguing a point I never made. I said the United States is "converting toward" fascism. I really think that the majority of Americans have no idea what fascism really is, because they're so engrossed inside a propaganda machine that makes the current political situation seem completely normal.

I think articles like this really need to be read by Americans more often:

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2011/04/20114261271...

Re: The town is no longer friendly for business

#112
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I's sorry, what? Can you please provide some examples of developments in Australia that in any way match what the parent was describing? Or have you been misled to believe that our Internet is filtered in any way? Australia has the sanest political climate of any developed country I've lived in, in large part thanks to compulsory and preferential (ranked) voting. Sure there's things like the manufactured boogeyman of…

There's mandatory Internet censorship in Australia, in a sense that it's funded by the government and users have no choice except to leave. It's a form of making censored Internet subscriptions cheaper than Internet Freedom subscriptions that will lead those ISPs to exit market. Heard of NBN? What if the government says that ISPs must have 'appropriate criminal filters' in place to be eligible for NBN access? Look to…

> There's mandatory Internet censorship in Australia, in a sense that it's funded by the government and users have no choice except to leave.

This is simply not true. There are two ISPs: Telstra and Optus, who voluntarily block websites from a list provided by the government. However, I don't know anyone who actually uses those ISPs, and they're more expensive to boot. The other major ISPs, such as iiNet and Internode, have no intention of implementing the filter, and in fact actively and successfully fight government interference in court. They're also cheaper, and in my experience provide superior customer service.

If the government decides to impose restrictions on NBN access, the latter group of ISPs are highly likely to fight it in court, and are quite likely to win.

And furthermore, given the fragile position the Labor party is currently in, it has shelved its plans for mandatory filtering, and is unlikely to reintroduce them, as it alienates their voter base, who are increasingly driven toward the Green Party, which is now in a position of significant influence and vocally opposes Internet censorship.

> Both parties have been known to support the ability to declare war without parliament

While Australia doesn't require parliamentary approval to go to war, the countries that do, the US in particular, don't seem to pay that rule much heed, so I'm not sure how much would change if such a rule was on the books.

> There's many secret copyright enforcement meetings and rumours

They can meet in secret as much as they want, but fortunately, they cannot pass laws in secret. Until a bill is introduced, such meetings are of no concern, nor are they in any way unique to Australia.

> Did you know that police can now issue $1320 on-the-spot fines and confiscate all electronic equipment deemed involved in piracy?

No I did not, and could not find any sources to corroborate that, nor examples of such fines actually being issued. Can you provide some links to that effect?

Re: The town is no longer friendly for business

#113
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's mandatory Internet censorship in Australia, in a sense that it's funded by the government and users have no choice except to leave. It's a form of making censored Internet subscriptions cheaper than Internet Freedom subscriptions that will lead those ISPs to exit market. Heard of NBN? What if the government says that ISPs must have 'appropriate criminal filters' in place to be eligible for NBN access? Look to…

> There's mandatory Internet censorship in Australia, in a sense that it's funded by the government and users have no choice except to leave. This is simply not true. There are two ISPs: Telstra and Optus, who voluntarily block websites from a list provided by the government. However, I don't know anyone who actually uses those ISPs, and they're more expensive to boot. The other major ISPs, such as iiNet and Internod…

> The other major ISPs, such as iiNet and Internode, have no intention of implementing the filter, and in fact actively and successfully fight government interference in court.

They may be expensive in some aspects, but they have a duopoly over cable among other competitive advantages. Even gamers/buyers like it due to lower ping in some cases.

iiNet and Internode are becoming one ISP, so they're two brands soon. iiNet seems to offer policing users with copyright infringement notices as a compromise due to relentless lobbyists. Again, I believe these compromises are a result of political tactics of Door in Face technique [1] and Overton window technique [2].

Labor party does not care if there's many surveys, polls, rallies against it. They're still considering the mandatory filter. I have similar concerns about the Liberal party wanting an Internet filter since they publicly stated that Labor's Internet Filter is not effective enough. Fortunately, they are not accepting an Internet Filter for now.

> While Australia doesn't require parliamentary approval to go to war, the countries that do, the US in particular, don't seem to pay that rule much heed, so I'm not sure how much would change if such a rule was on the books.

Democrats and Republicans jointly voted for the Iraq War. I'm not sure why you say they're avoiding that. Labor party was vocal in their opposition to Iraq war. If they were actually trying to gain votes, then well done. Seems like a cheap tactic that would be absolved with the parliamentary requirement.

> They can meet in secret as much as they want, but fortunately, they cannot pass laws in secret. Until a bill is introduced, such meetings are of no concern, nor are they in any way unique to Australia.

There are secret international collaborative exercises such as ACTA that erode Internet Freedom that were only initially exposed due to Wikileaks. That said, the results of such secret meetings, the government comes out adamant that copyright is a fundamental right over Internet Freedom and other rights.

For copyright infringement notices:

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_reg/cr1969242/...

http://www.mipi.com.au/About-Piracy/Penalties-for-piracy/

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Door-in-the-face_technique

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window

Re: The town is no longer friendly for business

#114
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

fas·cism/ˈfaSHizəm/ Noun: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. (in general use) Extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice. re·gime/riˈZHēm/ Noun: A government, esp. an authoritarian one. A system or planned way of doing things, esp. one imposed from above. I don't think you can get a more succinct description of what's happening to the Un…

This seems to be an ideological definition. I'm really curious where you obtained it. It is the perspective of leftists-- an ideological perspective-- that "fascism" is "right-wing". For instance, the Nationalist Socialist Workers Party, also known as the Nazis, were a pro-union, pro-socialism, pro-farmer, party. It seems that the accusation of "right wing" comes from using the term as a synonym for "authoritarian".…

The 1920's and 1930's Italian and German interpretation of fascism clearly isn't relevant today. The exact definition fascism is by no means definitive, but I consider the broad definition that Google provides to be concise and relevant to what's currently happening and accelerating in the US:

http://www.google.ca/search?q=define+fascism&ie=utf-8&#3...

Re: The town is no longer friendly for business

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fascism is characterised by promoting the state over individual interests, the forcible suppression of the opposition, all generally accompanied by a suspension of the rule of law. Some of this is happening here, but it's a long way down the slippery slope. Calling the US fascist as hyperbole for emotional impact is fine. But it sounds like a lot of people believe the US is actually fascist. My grandparents fled acro…

You're arguing a point I never made. I said the United States is "converting toward" fascism. I really think that the majority of Americans have no idea what fascism really is, because they're so engrossed inside a propaganda machine that makes the current political situation seem completely normal. I think articles like this really need to be read by Americans more often: http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/201…

[deleted]

Re: The town is no longer friendly for business

#116
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can get AWS on european servers, and iirc that falls under digital safe harbour laws, so the US govt can't get access to it.

the Dot Com MU shutdown was an international operation with join-forces used from many different countries. What makes you think that if "US govt" wants to access/shut down your domain/servers that are Europe-based, they won't ask their French, UK, German, or any other European country allies for help?

Asking an ally for help and simply sending out a "please turn over that data, mr Zuckerberg" is quite a difference. One is top diplomacy, interpol, the whole shebang. The other is something plenty NSA people can do on a whim.

Re: The town is no longer friendly for business

#117
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the only Presidential candidate in the US who isn't down with the Patriot Act and its provisions, and doesn't believe the US should be engaged in worldwide wars (aka "police actions"), is routinely dismissed as "crazy" by both major parties. Tells you a lot about the USA.

Well, the only Presidential candidate in the US who isn't down with the Patriot Act and its provisions, and doesn't believe the US should be engaged in worldwide wars (aka "police actions"), is routinely dismissed as "crazy" by both major parties. Tells you a lot about the USA. While I agree with your general sentiment, I want to add that Ron Paul is not the only such candidate for President in the US. If one expands…

Third-part candidates don't matter because of the structural gerrymander.

Including them in the conversation is like including me, a non-citizen in the conversation - I don't matter because I'm not remotely electable, and neither are they.

Re: The town is no longer friendly for business

#118
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

fas·cism/ˈfaSHizəm/ Noun: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. (in general use) Extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice. re·gime/riˈZHēm/ Noun: A government, esp. an authoritarian one. A system or planned way of doing things, esp. one imposed from above. I don't think you can get a more succinct description of what's happening to the Un…

This seems to be an ideological definition. I'm really curious where you obtained it. It is the perspective of leftists-- an ideological perspective-- that "fascism" is "right-wing". For instance, the Nationalist Socialist Workers Party, also known as the Nazis, were a pro-union, pro-socialism, pro-farmer, party. It seems that the accusation of "right wing" comes from using the term as a synonym for "authoritarian".…

> the Nationalist Socialist Workers Party, also known as the Nazis, were a pro-union, pro-socialism, pro-farmer, party.

Writing this from Weimar, Germany: Oh no, certainly not. First thing the Nazis did was shut down the unions, also the communist party.

Re: The town is no longer friendly for business

#119
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As it gets more managed, managed democracy grows increasingly indistinguishable from fascism.

If America is a fascist country then the word fascism has no meaning.

Well, you do have to admit that Obama and Mussolini both end in vowels!
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