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Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

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Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#331
post #325
post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you're misrepresenting it. Your rationale is that Russia is an evil empire trying to expand its borders to its former glory, and that's why it attacked Ukraine... a primary school level of simplification. You ignore that Russia's number one fear after the collapse of the USSR was for another military invasion from the West, as had happened several times over the last few centuries... that Russia's border with Ukr…

"Russia's number one fear after the collapse of the USSR was for another military invasion from the West[...]" Nice, Russia is just defending itself. Excuse me i need to go laugh out loud somewhere

Yes, Russia is not expanding, it's defending it's borders. I'm well familiar with the endless bullshit that is coming from Russia including this one.

Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#332
post #307
post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you completely misinterpret the situation with Russia and China. Russia and China have the objectives of their own. For Russia it is to expand their empire that in their own mind rightfully belongs to them. They didn't attack Ukraine because of US actions but because they seriously believe that they have some kind of right over Ukrainians lands, or even more seriously, that Ukrainians don't exists. If US woul…

There are many, many explanations for i.e. why didn't China attack Taiwan (yet) and while the U.S. finger in the region helps in some ways, supporting Taiwan proclaiming independence for example may actually not be helping to prevent war there. It seems to me like China is much more reluctant than Russia is to go to such a war, probably because apart from facing domestic nationalistic pressure to do so, there's littl…

And from where does this isolation come from? I think you are contradicting a little with yourself here.

Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could have made your point without accusing anyone of parroting „the media“. Russia has agreed to the borders of Ukraine in 1993 and from then on 2 more times. They have onesidedly broken the agreement and attacked a peaceful neighbour, no commitment to not joining NATO has been granted. These are facts you can easily look up, no need to come up with made up security concerns which have been no problem a decade e…

It's worth noting that the agreements that guarantee Ukraine's borders also guarantee Russia's access to their black sea military bases in the Chimera.

Nothing like this has been granted to Russia. It was a time limited lease, like HK from China. Russia also unilaterally broke these agreements in 2014.

Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China and russia might have had no restraint like you. Agencies in EU countries actually did. "There is no law that prevents countries from spying on each other, so I don't know what you think is illegal here. " Depending on your definition of "law", is there a law preventing agencies from going somewhere else and killing and stealing as they see fit? International law is kind of complicated, but the basic idea is to…

> is there a law preventing agencies from going somewhere else and killing and stealing as they see fit? Yes, the laws of the country they go to. >>International law is kind of complicated, but the basic idea is to not interfere with each other to keep the peace. How is spying interfering with each other? > And activly hacking foreign computers is considered interfering What about passively collecting the information…

"How is spying interfering with each other?"

Hacking into computers on foreign soil, sounds quite interfering to me, or would you be OK with me giving it a try at your computers/network?

"> is there a law preventing agencies from going somewhere else and killing and stealing as they see fit?

Yes, the laws of the country they go to"

Same with hacking. It is not legal, to hack computers here in germany.

And sure, Merkel wasn't surprised, nor was me, or anyone in IT security. But the general population was. They assumed naivly, ally means respecting the other party.

Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#335
post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't follow that at the time and I'm finding it hard to find information about it, would love a link to those leaked documents.

Search "Victoria Nuland" and it will come up.

Thank you

Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best excuse they could come up with is essentially, "Chill out. I only robbed your house because you threatened to join the neighborhood watch!" So, yeah, they're the bad guys, and no, there is no way to spin it.

The first thing that dies in war is the truth. Amnesty International, the UN and Human Rights Watch documented very well how Ukrainian extremists and paramilitary organizations tortured and put people randomly into detentions after the allegedly USA friendly government was installed in the Ukraine in 2014. Here are some money quotes which I found interesting: September 2014: “Members of the Aidar territorial defence…

LOL. Well, that's certainly... "useful."

Amnesty is a captive organization:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Amnesty_Internati...

Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#337
The government can do whatever it wants in a non-democratic system. People in this case must use any means to organize themselves to overthrow the government cannot openly violate the rights of citizens because the mechanism of overthrowing the government through protest or votes work

Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#338
post #44

>Intelligence professionals talk about how disorienting it is living on the inside. You read so much classified information about the world’s geopolitical events that you start seeing the world differently. You become convinced that only the insiders know what’s really going on, because the news media is so often wrong. Your family is ignorant. Your friends are ignorant. The world is ignorant. The only thing keeping…

this says that decision makers literally live in a different reality than us, thus making them unsuitable to make decisions on our behalf

Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guantanamo Bay is thousands of times smaller in magnitude than putting millions of your own citizens in concentration camps. It's also reprehensible and should be closed, no one disagrees on that

Maybe, but now we are discussing scales of evil and not whether evil is actually done. Moral superiority is effectively lost. Also, this is nothing compared to millions of deaths due to wars and entire vast regions fucked up badly for generations. In that aspect, US is much worse than Russia or China, if we check past few decades (which is way more relevant for present than judgling last 200-500 years). It pains me t…

> Also, this is nothing compared to millions of deaths due to wars and entire vast regions fucked up badly for generations. In that aspect, US is much worse than Russia or China, if we check past few decades (which is way more relevant for present than judgling last 200-500 years).

The hundreds of millions of people who lived under Soviet communism (entire Eastern Europe, South East Europe, Central Asia) are fucked badly for generations.

Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#340
post #239

Years ago, when I interviewed at places that did USG-related work, the stuff I heard about that I didn't have to sign an NDA to hear , scared me enough that I knew Snowden-scale stuff was entirely within the capabilities of the US Govt. I didn't realize they would use it against us just blatantly in direct violation of every law put in place to prevent it, though. I think the lesson I learned from the Snowden leaks i…

I think your takeaway is wrong. It isn't the government doing naughty secret things but the government doing so with support from a plurality of the people. The patriot act is a non-partisan issue that gets renewed every administration. Snowden and Assange should be locked up accroding to a majority of americans. Your takeaway should be that a democracy would always reflect the will of the people with or without any…

I'm reading your comment as saying that if I don't think Snowden/Assange should be pardoned and set free, I'm implicitly supporting mass surveillance.

I wanted to provide a counterbalance to that view. Snowden is a complicated case - in my view it isn't as simple as 100% hero or 100% villain - but Assange is in my view relatively clear.

Wikileaks and Manning appear to have leaked anything they can. I don't support such a scattergun approach. Also, while some of their leaks pertain to surveillance (the vault 7 ones) most of them do not.

Then there's Assange. He was facing extradition to Sweden under a European Arrest Warrant for rape alleged to have taken place there, but instead skipped bail on the pretext it was all some US conspiracy. Until extradition was approved he was free on bail. Likely had he been extradited to Sweden he would also have been free on bail, and the burden of proof would have remained on prosecutors. I'm sure he would have had a fair trial.

Instead he made it to the Ecuadorian embassy and stayed until he made himself unwelcome. At which point he was arrested by the UK for skipping bail and has since been subject to the very extradition procedure that was his pretext.

I'm British, although I no longer live there. If you are the US government and you want to extradite someone legally I can't imagine a friendlier jurisdiction than the UK.

I'm also mildly irritated that the UN torture experts keep sounding off that this is torture. Not at all. Assange chose to enter the Ecuadorian embassy and in doing so chose to break the law by not attending court. He chose to remain there for a considerable time, making labelling him a flight risk so obvious as to be automatic. When he came out of the embassy, he was convicted and jailed of that crime. He has also remained there because he's currently subject to extradition proceedings and no judge is going to grant him bail. I'm certain living in a confined space in the embassy wasn't pleasant, but that was a choice. I'm certain prison isn't pleasant either (no matter what UK tabloids say) but that is a consequence. This is a far cry from what, say, the Syrian regime does.

I support encryption and anything that frustrates mass surveillance because I believe fundamentally that private citizens have a right to a private life and that invasion of that privacy should be specific and justified, including when it comes to electronic communications. I accept that law enforcement will sometimes be faced with a situation in which they cannot decrypt communications between two almost certain criminals and this may make their job harder, and I'm happy with that trade-off. In the end, all a pervasive backdoor does is target law abiding citizens, as criminals by definition won't feel bound to put their keys in escrow or whatever. They're already developing their own handsets and the police have shown themselves capable of targeting them (encrochat).

At the same time, if Assange is extradited to the US tomorrow then good riddance. I don't see that I have to support him in any way in order to object to mass surveillance, pervasive monitoring and mandated backdoors.

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