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Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

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Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#301

Post by win32k »

luke727 wrote: post #299
nyokodo wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He was flying to Ecuador and his passport was revoked when he was in Russia Says who. > If you speak out against Ukraine in Russia you get shot, and he has a wife and kids now. That doesn’t mean he has to pledge allegiance during that period. Regardless it’s not what an American patriot does. That narrative is untenable now.

> Says who. Just a few tabloid rags like The Washington Post [1], The Guardian [2], and The Atlantic [3]. > That doesn’t mean he has to pledge allegiance during that period. Regardless it’s not what an American patriot does. That narrative is untenable now. Pledging allegiance is required to obtain Russian citizenship, which grants him additional protections from the United States. It is also required to obtain a Rus…

Brought it all on himself. Deserves to rot in jail.

Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#302

Post by account-5 »

still_grokking wrote: post #291
account-5 wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's certainly what's wrong with democracy.

People?

No. None of this stuff works without people. There's a reason we have representative democracies instead of true democracies. Why we elect people to make those decisions.

I'm not saying it's working but I don't think true democracy would work any better either because the underlying issue with democracy is you're relying on ill informed people, people who don't understand either the issue upon which they vote or the consequences of a vote either way, to make decisions.

People easily manipulated by social media filter bubbles and ridiculous slogans. Or in our current democracies just money.

I think democracy is probably the best we've had to date but it's showing its flaws.

Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#304

Post by genman »

brabel wrote: post #259
throwaway892238 wrote: post #176

Years ago, when I interviewed at places that did USG-related work, the stuff I heard about that I didn't have to sign an NDA to hear , scared me enough that I knew Snowden-scale stuff was entirely within the capabilities of the US Govt. I didn't realize they would use it against us just blatantly in direct violation of every law put in place to prevent it, though. I think the lesson I learned from the Snowden leaks i…

Transparency is the key. Governments love secrecy because that allows them to do whatever nasty stuff they want while pretending to be righteous at the surface. Just look at past secrets that have been disclosed recently and think: should those things really be secret? I say absolutely no. The mentality of keeping things secret to hide your real intentions, or to not upset people too much (or they will panic!), or to…

I think you completely misinterpret the situation with Russia and China.

Russia and China have the objectives of their own. For Russia it is to expand their empire that in their own mind rightfully belongs to them. They didn't attack Ukraine because of US actions but because they seriously believe that they have some kind of right over Ukrainians lands, or even more seriously, that Ukrainians don't exists.

If US would have been in Ukraine, or moved in rapidly when the situation became dangerous, there wouldn't be war at them moment. We see this clearly play out in far east, where China has ambition to overtake Taiwan (what they like Russia with Ukraine believe to belong rightfully to themselves). They clearly would have already attacked if it wasn't clear that US will prevent them doing so.

I'm certain that they would have done it, had US backed away from Ukraine. I'm also certain that what led Russia to believe that they could pull off Ukrainian invasion, was the US departure from Afghanistan, not that they did it but how they did it by letting Taliban completely humiliate them without any response. Russia believed that US is weak, not interested, and it would possibly have been like that, had Ukraine not managed to pull off very strong response.

US is there to fill the vacuum. If it was not US, it would be China (or it could Russia possibly). If not today, then eventually it would be one of them. I prefer US because it is more predictable and rule based and in the long run more favorable for the people.

Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#305

Post by andrepd »

throwaway892238 wrote: post #176

Years ago, when I interviewed at places that did USG-related work, the stuff I heard about that I didn't have to sign an NDA to hear , scared me enough that I knew Snowden-scale stuff was entirely within the capabilities of the US Govt. I didn't realize they would use it against us just blatantly in direct violation of every law put in place to prevent it, though. I think the lesson I learned from the Snowden leaks i…

Transparency and a strong and independent investigative press is our best defense.

Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#306

Post by MrVandemar »

ROTMetro wrote: post #201
MrVandemar wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's important to remember that they invaded Ukraine for no reason, That's extremely reductive. The situation is a bit more complex than that. I don't think they were right to invade -- not remotely -- I think it's abhorrent. But there is a little more historical context with the US and other regional tensions than Putin rolling a 1D6 and deciding that meant "hey, I'm bored, let's invade".

If it's more complex, why not add details of that complexity to the discussion instead your vague comments? You know, add know depth, knowledge, or detail instead of just saying 'but it's more complex'? Perhaps because they details don't justify a war of aggression? Because the details paint the aggressor in a starker light than your incredibly lacking 'a bit more complex'?

Hey ROTMetro, nothing of the kind. I dunno, you sound kind of hostile about it.

All it is that I read up on it last year. I've forgotten most of the details -- I'm not really interested in geopolitics and war, and I'm very interested in accessibility, botany, programming, science fiction and lots of other things, so the boring stuff gets crowded out pretty easily.

I'm sure it's not hard to find the same or similar sources that relate the geopolitical context of the Ukraine Invasion.

Today is Be Nice to People on the Internet Day.

BTW, this person seems to have some insight, but I'm sure there's more to it as well: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36100393

Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#307

Post by Matl »

genman wrote: post #304
brabel wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Transparency is the key. Governments love secrecy because that allows them to do whatever nasty stuff they want while pretending to be righteous at the surface. Just look at past secrets that have been disclosed recently and think: should those things really be secret? I say absolutely no. The mentality of keeping things secret to hide your real intentions, or to not upset people too much (or they will panic!), or to…

I think you completely misinterpret the situation with Russia and China. Russia and China have the objectives of their own. For Russia it is to expand their empire that in their own mind rightfully belongs to them. They didn't attack Ukraine because of US actions but because they seriously believe that they have some kind of right over Ukrainians lands, or even more seriously, that Ukrainians don't exists. If US woul…

There are many, many explanations for i.e. why didn't China attack Taiwan (yet) and while the U.S. finger in the region helps in some ways, supporting Taiwan proclaiming independence for example may actually not be helping to prevent war there. It seems to me like China is much more reluctant than Russia is to go to such a war, probably because apart from facing domestic nationalistic pressure to do so, there's little actual reason and China does not really want to have its (in Chinese memory) recent expansion of the middle class stopped by facing isolation. Even the Chinese government responds to popular pressure by simply adjusting its policy more often than deploying tanks.

With regards to Russia, Putin, (being a Russian neocon), is using the example of how Russians are sometimes treated in former Soviet countries with regards to citizenship, speaking Russian etc., as well as Ukraine say banning Russian language books or the Russian flag being banned at sports events, which actually helps his cause domestically. If we were actually interested in weakening his grip, we'd strongly oppose such policies imo.

Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#308

Post by imiric »

_8j50 wrote: post #239
throwaway892238 wrote: post #176

Years ago, when I interviewed at places that did USG-related work, the stuff I heard about that I didn't have to sign an NDA to hear , scared me enough that I knew Snowden-scale stuff was entirely within the capabilities of the US Govt. I didn't realize they would use it against us just blatantly in direct violation of every law put in place to prevent it, though. I think the lesson I learned from the Snowden leaks i…

I think your takeaway is wrong. It isn't the government doing naughty secret things but the government doing so with support from a plurality of the people. The patriot act is a non-partisan issue that gets renewed every administration. Snowden and Assange should be locked up accroding to a majority of americans. Your takeaway should be that a democracy would always reflect the will of the people with or without any…

> The people gave away their freedoms out of fear.

Where do you think that fear comes from? It can be fabricated using real or fake events anytime the government wants to pursue a political or financial goal. Modern media is a government mouthpiece, even in apparent liberal democracies, and is used to sway public opinion in any direction.

This mechanism is also exploited by political enemies, to sow dissent and social unrest, crippling democratic systems.

Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#309

Post by TimedToasts »

andsoitis wrote: post #26
iJohnDoe wrote: post #14

I think people would be surprised and sickened to know just how cooperative the big tech companies are with the intelligence agencies. Microsoft is especially cooperative, even as going so far to make sure their systems are compatible with surveillance systems. Yes, Telcos have had to this as well, but I don’t think many people know that Microsoft has proactively done this.

> Microsoft is especially cooperative, even as going so far to make sure their systems are compatible with surveillance systems. What is a good example?

_NSAKEY: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSAKEY

Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#310

Post by chrysler »

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #258
roenxi wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mr. Putin framed his decision to invade Ukraine as a last-ditch effort to halt the West’s hostile expansion ever closer to Russia’s borders. ~ https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/24/world/europe/putin-ukrain... > It is a fact that over the past 30 years we have been patiently trying to come to an agreement with the leading NATO countries regarding the principles of equal and indivisible security in Europe. In response…

He is completely correct. After the collapse of the USSR, Russia repeatedly tried to join NATO. It was rebuffed by the US - why? Instead of forging a new alliance, the west preferred to uphold old friend-enemy distinctions, and instead moved the NATO ever closer to Russia‘s border, ignoring its security needs and breaking old promises (as evidenced by the embassy cable leaks). Then, Ukraine shelled the Russian civili…

>> After the collapse of the USSR, Russia repeatedly tried to join NATO.

That never happened. You will no find no trace of that in State Duma transcripts, policy papers or any other contemporary source. I can show you a long trail of adopted laws and doctrines for countries that eventually joined NATO (or failed in their bid), but nothing of this sort exists for Russia. It's a hoax invented to justify the invasion of Ukraine.

>> instead moved the NATO ever closer to Russia‘s border, ignoring its security needs and breaking old promises

The start of NATO expansion talks were preceded by a treaty between NATO and Russia declaring the respect for third countries freely choosing their allies. The narrative that NATO promised never to accept Eastern Europe (and broke that promise) was invented much later and conflicts with personal accounts and written agreements from that time.

>> Prominent establishment people like John Mearsheimer

His infamous lecture that presents a totally warped view of the world is the single most damaging piece of propaganda related to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. If that's what you're basing your views on, then it's no surprise that you are totally off the mark.

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