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Why I Left Rust

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Re: Why I Left Rust

#41

Post by cinntaile »

lionkor wrote: post #36
bitwize wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, open source is just like this now. I think it's a confluence of factors: 1) Open source is more about interpersonal collaboration than it ever has been. The lone hacker throwing tarballs -- or patches -- over the fence is dead. Open source projects now more closely resemble "real world" software projects: a team of engineers using collaborative tools, working toward a defined shared vision with management and ove…

There is and always has been a problem parallel to this: People who are part of a group they believe to be fundamentally segregated and discriminated against are much more likely to let this influence their judgement. A promotion of someone else quickly becomes favoritism, and a demotion or reassignment (or rescheduling) quickly becomes discrimination, even if those decisions were made on a different basis. A lot of…

You are wrongfully framing him as someone taking advantage of his minority "status". If you read the explanation by Jeanheyd Meneide himself you will see that it's not about that at all.

https://thephd.dev/i-am-no-longer-speaking-at-rustconf-2023

Re: Why I Left Rust

#42

Post by eynsham »

sgt wrote: post #28

[flagged]

> Nothing wrong…

Well, thanks, I suppose.

> …allow it to work organically.

This is a bit unclear. Would you object to finding mediocre speakers from underrepresented groups just to boost representation? I imagine so, and so would I.

Would you object to, e.g., posting to a mailing list mostly for black or women developers to encourage applications (without any alteration to the subsequent application procedure)? Well, I can’t tell whether you’d regard that as ‘organic’ and unobjectionable, or inorganic and objectionable; I’d regard it as the former.

Does that mean that I’ve succumbed to the ‘woke mindvirus’? Perhaps, but even if I have, I’m not convinced that such terms are conducive to curing me of it.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#44

Post by pas »

neonsunset wrote: post #29

I love Rust but the ideological posturing and swathes of people who in their hearts are grifters is truly disappointing. Framing a technical presentation you disagree with as "making you uncomfortable" in highly manipulative fashion definitely deserves to be called out in public.

ideology (culture!) is important.

your second point seems trivial, after all let's assume that most of us live and act accordingly (manipulation is bad, and if there's something uncomfortable about a presentation, then it should be directly addressed, etc)

but your first seems very interesting. can you please elaborate on who these grifters are, and how to identify them?

Re: Why I Left Rust

#48

Post by irjustin »

glogla wrote: post #32
samastur wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't been to a conference in years because of COVID, but I've been to plenty mainly web and Python related before. Almost all of them had keynote speakers, who received a prominent spot, usually in the morning and on multi-tier conferences the only talk scheduled at that time slot. Based on content of most of those talks the expectation was to take a wider or deeper or just different look at our fields and not m…

It is funny because at least for me personally, it is the other way around. I am most interested in deeper technical talks (or cool lightning talks that broaden my horizons) and keynotes often feel like highlevel generic talks that are very skippable - often aimed at CTOs and not engineers. Also, "prominent spot in the morning" is exactly the opposite for me as well, because conferences are all about networking and e…

In that sense I loved the Ruby conferences where the keynote was commonly matz or tenderlove talking about some crazy deep problem ruby was tackling about memory, jit, or speed tradeoffs.

Sadly haven't been to one in years since they haven't come back to SG

Re: Why I Left Rust

#49

Post by esperent »

bitwize wrote: post #9
locusofself wrote: post #5

What's up with all the petty drama in the Rust community.. is it uniquely problematic?

No, open source is just like this now. I think it's a confluence of factors: 1) Open source is more about interpersonal collaboration than it ever has been. The lone hacker throwing tarballs -- or patches -- over the fence is dead. Open source projects now more closely resemble "real world" software projects: a team of engineers using collaborative tools, working toward a defined shared vision with management and ove…

> Fully 25% of Gen Z identify as LGBTQ. Among hackers that number is higher; it's likely a majority of late Gen Y or Gen Z hackers are queer

The figure is 20%, from on Gallup poll in the US and is unlikely to be a global figure.

Jumping from that to a "majority of hackers" is quite a statement to throw out offhand with nothing to back it up. Kind of undermines the rest of your argument which was otherwise interesting.

> a growing pain of open source becoming a real movement

Oh wait, and there goes the rest of it. Diversity issues aside, open source has always been a real and important movement. It doesn't take having a diverse membership to make a movement important, and making that a requirement before you'll take something seriously is quite problematic, frankly. I say this as someone who is generally delighted by diversity and the growing numbers of people who feel safe to identify as LGBTQ.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#50

Post by Yasuraka »

>I wept because of the cruelty. But I also wept because I helped create the system that could do this to someone.

I believe these must've been Oppenheimer's words

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