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The town is no longer friendly for business

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Re: The town is no longer friendly for business

#41

Post by mbateman »

powertower wrote: post #17

I live in the US. I don't know a single person that's in prison. I don't know a single person that's been charged as a terrorist. I don't know a single person whose business has been adversely affected by the government (such as the above). Seriously! But they keep telling me that it's happening all around me. They tell me it's a fascist police state.

We definitely do not live in a fascist police state. However, there are elements of the cultural and political scene that can be accurately described as fascist.

To put it another way, it's certainly true that it is still possible to live a happy and basically free life in the US, and many other countries. However, it's also true that unjust laws has seriously negative effects that make many people less happy and free.

These aren't contradictory. It's also possible to be basically healthy but have an illness, basically financially stable but have unexpected expenses, for a team to have good fundamental teamwork but still have some coordination problems, etc., etc.

Despite an overall good state of affairs there can be bad things that are important to consider, especially when the trajectory seems to be that things are getting worse.

Re: The town is no longer friendly for business

#42

Post by csomar »

locusm wrote: post #24

This is knee jerk reaction bullshit. How many domains representing commercial entities are there in the States? How many have been closed down?

No, it shouldn't be measured that way.You should measure the damage caused by taking these domains down, and how many comapnies went oit of business because of this.

Re: The town is no longer friendly for business

#43

Post by unseen »

powertower wrote: post #28
ht_th wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could be also a form of social segregation you're experiencing. For example, people charged with terrorism acts nowadays are found mainly in extremist religious circles and extremist right wing anti-government circles. (In the 1960s/1970s it would be extremist left-youth and extremist black-emancipation circles) The background of people in prison is often a weak economical-social position coupled with bad childhoo…

Where's the evidence that what happened to JotForms was a malicious act designed to shut them down? From what has been made public, it was most likely a blunder. Mistakes and oversights happen. > I often wonder about the agenda of these journalists/news outlets Headlines sell. > That does not mean that these reports aren't exaggerated. Out of the 300 million people living here in the US, half on the edge, I'd say if…

You can claim your DUI was a mistake, a blunder, an oversight on your part, but that won't save you from a conviction. There apparently seem to be no such consequences when the government decides to shut down and possibly kill a business by suspending the domain.

Re: The town is no longer friendly for business

#44

Post by rythie »

F_J_H wrote: post #26
powertower wrote: post #17

I live in the US. I don't know a single person that's in prison. I don't know a single person that's been charged as a terrorist. I don't know a single person whose business has been adversely affected by the government (such as the above). Seriously! But they keep telling me that it's happening all around me. They tell me it's a fascist police state.

As far as I know, I don't personally know anyone who: - has AIDS or is HIV+ - is being restricted from enjoying a freedom due to religious dogma - who has been a rape victim - who has been bullied in school for being gay - who has been discriminated against because of their race - who has been abused as a child However, I have no doubt whatsoever that there are many, many people out there (even in my city), who have…

People who have experienced the above don't tell everyone the meet about it. So, it's still possible you know people who've experienced the above, especially since many of things you list are quite common.

Re: The town is no longer friendly for business

#45

Post by J3L2404 »

jacquesm wrote: post #37
J3L2404 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> full-on fascist regime. This why you can't judge the world by watching TV. It is really sad to see normally intelligent people go batshit crazy and start spewing nonsense. Europeans should know better than to throw around the word fascist. I am so sick of whining Europeans that I would almost support stalling the U.S. economy just to drive the E.U. into a ditch.

> It is really sad to see normally intelligent people go batshit crazy and start spewing nonsense. > I am so sick of whining Europeans that I would almost support stalling the U.S. economy just to drive the E.U. into a ditch. Indeed. Pot, meet kettle.

Sorry Jacques if my comments are offensive, but this whole America is the evil empire meme is just a load of crap.

Someone needs to start 'Occupy Reality'.

Re: The town is no longer friendly for business

#46

Post by DanielBMarkham »

There are some general trends that are worth noting.

The right seems to generally want to support a new military-industrial complex focused more on immigration and monitoring the population and less on building aircraft carriers. The left seems fine with this, although they'd never openly admit it, aside from a bunch of pundits complaining, as long as they keep and energize their voter base with their issues.

The left seems to generally want to support a class warfare us-versus-the-corporations narrative which seeks to make more and more laws about all companies, 10 employees or a 1000. The right seems fine with this, although they'd never openly admit it, aside from a bunch of pundits complaining, as long as they keep and energize their voter base with their issues.

The political debate itself seems to be in a spot where the trick is not to get holding the bag. Do only as much as it takes for voters not to blame you. It's much more crisis-driven than it ever has been.

These trends don't look well for conducting international business. I don't think there's any disaster coming, but I think the complex social and political systems we've created will actually become less and less stable the more we try to over-manage them.

Right now my money is on "friendly for business" but the situation is slowly and inexorably changing for the worse. So if I were a foreigner looking do do a startup, I'd probably be in the states -- and probably would not plan on staying there. (insert long discussion about qualifiers that might change that plan, such as requiring a large, trained workforce or special infrastructure issues.)

EDIT: This "instability in complex systems" I brought up is exactly illustrated in the JotForms case. The law over-allocates power to an agency, registrars bend over backward to comply with whatever the agency wants (lest they get on the shit list too.), then some pencil-pusher kills several man-years of work. Not out of malice or evilness -- just by simply not being aware of the implications of her actions. The most frustrating thing is that there are no nazis or evil political parties required here. For the most part it's just good, smart, clever, and responsible people all acting as best they can. That's the real tragedy. It's not some kind of comic book, good-guy-versus-bad-guy situation. It's a bad system created by a bad dynamic, and it looks to get even more bad as that dynamic keeps reinforcing itself.

Re: The town is no longer friendly for business

#47

Post by jacquesm »

J3L2404 wrote: post #45
jacquesm wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is really sad to see normally intelligent people go batshit crazy and start spewing nonsense. > I am so sick of whining Europeans that I would almost support stalling the U.S. economy just to drive the E.U. into a ditch. Indeed. Pot, meet kettle.

Sorry Jacques if my comments are offensive, but this whole America is the evil empire meme is just a load of crap. Someone needs to start 'Occupy Reality'.

I think if you want to point out the flaw in someones argument you could do better than to go down the exact same road they took.

You effectively claim that the US does not need the EU and that you could afford to drive the EU 'into a ditch' out of spite, when in fact the economies are now so interlinked that if the one suffers the other suffers right along with it. The current crisis is a nice example of that.

Effectively it is a single giant economy with lots of subtle and not well understood dependencies, wrecking one on purpose will likely wreck the other one as well.

Besides that, you are painting all Europeans with the same brush and that is just as stupid as those that like to paint all of the US with one brush.

America is not 'the evil empire' (and neither is Europe), but on both sides of the Atlantic there is plenty of stuff going on that does not have the interests of the general public at heart. I don't mind those that expose those things, and I don't mind people trying to avoid making past mistakes again. They're braver than me in many respects.

We're moving into uncharted territory with respect to the amount of impact surveillance technology and anti-terrorism measures have on the lives of ordinary citizens. It remains to be seen if the net result of that is beneficial or not (I'm skeptical and I think that it will be a net negative). The United States seems to me to be the party pushing most aggressively to achieve this with the EU following along and sometimes trying to outdo its counterparts.

What bugs me is that there is no - or very little - accountability on this front and the extent to which commercial interests and political interests are entwined. It may take a lot of work to undo the damage that we're doing to ourselves and our societies. To polarize that into a US vs Europe debate is silly at best and 'batshit crazy' at worst. Please don't add fuel to that particular fire.

Re: The town is no longer friendly for business

#48

Post by regularfry »

wyclif wrote: post #18
wavephorm wrote: post #4

The United States is very quickly becoming an ever more scary looking country. From the outside, it appears to be converting itself into a full-on fascist regime, hostile to insiders and outsiders alike. The walls are going up, the spy-cams and wiretapping are springing up. The SOPA/PIPA powered nation-wide firewall is being constructed. Local authorities are increasingly becoming subservient to a centralized federal…

The walls are going up, the spy-cams and wiretapping are springing up You mean like England, the land of ubiquitous CCTV?

The US is supposed to be a shining beacon of hope. I'm not quite sure what the UK is supposed to be.

Re: The town is no longer friendly for business

#49

Post by J3L2404 »

jacquesm wrote: post #47
J3L2404 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry Jacques if my comments are offensive, but this whole America is the evil empire meme is just a load of crap. Someone needs to start 'Occupy Reality'.

I think if you want to point out the flaw in someones argument you could do better than to go down the exact same road they took. You effectively claim that the US does not need the EU and that you could afford to drive the EU 'into a ditch' out of spite, when in fact the economies are now so interlinked that if the one suffers the other suffers right along with it. The current crisis is a nice example of that. Effec…

Thanks for your thoughtful reply, and of course your right. But these fascist claims go unanswered here too often and I shouldn't have to dispute it point by point. It's ludicrous.

>you are painting all Europeans with the same brush and that is just as stupid as those that like to paint all of the US with one brush.

Well I did qualify it with 'whining'. Particularly the ones whose sense of entitlement has become so bloated.

My 'E.U. in a ditch' was too much, I have no beef with Europe, just calling out bullshit.

Re: The town is no longer friendly for business

#50

Post by alan_cx »

mattmanser wrote: post #11
wavephorm wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This trend appears to be happening in Canada, UK, and EU simultaneously. The G8 are coordinating their authoritarian efforts in a way that is completely unprecedented. Like a lot of things the US is probably the one pushing for this on its "friends".

I feel things have calmed down in the UK on that front since TB got booted out. Personally I thought the height of that was when David Blunkett was home secretary.

Who authorised the police to use water cannon and fire arms on protesters in the UK then? Your comment looks like political bias. Both governments ratchet up the attacks on its people. Government is the problem, not which one.

I think its about time to realise that the ruling classes see it as us and them. We the people are the enemy of governments. It does not matter which party we are talking about.

They farm us like animals. We allow them to.

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