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Node.js built-ins on Deno Deploy

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Re: Node.js built-ins on Deno Deploy

#11

Post by endisneigh »

progx wrote: post #9
endisneigh wrote: post #6

ironically, the more node js goes into Deno, the less likely I am to switch. imho they should stay the course and not include too much node stuff.

deno has some benefits (fast, included ts, linter, formatter, etc.), but without node compatibility, i will not switch to deno.

I am not saying deno does not have benefits. I am saying you can get many of those things with node already. I see deno more and more as an opinionated set of things + node. This is not a bad thing.

but if you already have a huge legacy node project why would you switch to deno? or are we all going to pretend to forget why Deno was even created?

Re: Node.js built-ins on Deno Deploy

#12

Post by endisneigh »

shrubble wrote: post #5

I do wonder about the long-term effects of Deno being Node-compatible; will it result in only Node programming being done since "Deno will handle it fine" and thus Deno specific stuff will not be developed?

Sad such a reasonable question is downvoted, lol. I agree with the sentiment. It's expected any development would want to have the highest reach, which means Node. If Deno supports node features, and node does not support deno clearly the logical conclusion is that features will be node-first, with deno expected to support it anyway. Thus leading to the question of why even bother with Deno?

Deno does have some benefits, such as security model and speed, but those are not things that couldn't be added to Node. Once Node adds the security model why use Deno?

Re: Node.js built-ins on Deno Deploy

#13

Post by pavlov »

eterm wrote: post #7
shrubble wrote: post #5

I do wonder about the long-term effects of Deno being Node-compatible; will it result in only Node programming being done since "Deno will handle it fine" and thus Deno specific stuff will not be developed?

Deno being Node compatible is the "Embrace" in "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish".

Microsoft’s original successful application of this 3E strategy was predicated on them being the 300 kg gorilla in the market. Deno doesn’t seem to have that. When you’re the underdog, people don’t end up using your extensions without thinking.

Re: Node.js built-ins on Deno Deploy

#14

Post by lolinder »

endisneigh wrote: post #11
progx wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

deno has some benefits (fast, included ts, linter, formatter, etc.), but without node compatibility, i will not switch to deno.

I am not saying deno does not have benefits. I am saying you can get many of those things with node already. I see deno more and more as an opinionated set of things + node. This is not a bad thing. but if you already have a huge legacy node project why would you switch to deno? or are we all going to pretend to forget why Deno was even created?

Yep. I saw Deno as intended to be a platform for new projects that want to start fresh without all the legacy cruft from Node. Somewhere along the way they decided it was a priority to be able to transition legacy Node projects to Deno, and I'm afraid that what's going to happen is it will freeze the ecosystem's development of independent solutions in favor of just using Node libraries for everything.

Re: Node.js built-ins on Deno Deploy

#15

Post by eknkc »

pavlov wrote: post #13
eterm wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deno being Node compatible is the "Embrace" in "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish".

Microsoft’s original successful application of this 3E strategy was predicated on them being the 300 kg gorilla in the market. Deno doesn’t seem to have that. When you’re the underdog, people don’t end up using your extensions without thinking.

I could also work if Deno had to offer more than what Node does, while being compatible. People would start using Deno and then start using Deno specific things which are not compatible with Node.

Long shot though.

Re: Node.js built-ins on Deno Deploy

#16

Post by endisneigh »

eknkc wrote: post #15
pavlov wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft’s original successful application of this 3E strategy was predicated on them being the 300 kg gorilla in the market. Deno doesn’t seem to have that. When you’re the underdog, people don’t end up using your extensions without thinking.

I could also work if Deno had to offer more than what Node does, while being compatible. People would start using Deno and then start using Deno specific things which are not compatible with Node. Long shot though.

yes. however Deno is the opposite of that. Typescript for example got adoption so fast because it was extremely easy to use typescript + javascript. Deno, however, inherently was against the node and npm sort of model. this makes sense in some sense since node does have a bunch of legacy cruft. however node is extremely popular and for adoption they need to support certain node features, and thus inherent the cruft. with each new adoption it makes less sense to use deno.

I expect deno to convert all of their features to node modules and simply be an opinionated stack, similar to create-react-app vs. next.js. The path they're entertaining now isn't really tenable.

Re: Node.js built-ins on Deno Deploy

#20

Post by jrsj »

shrubble wrote: post #5

I do wonder about the long-term effects of Deno being Node-compatible; will it result in only Node programming being done since "Deno will handle it fine" and thus Deno specific stuff will not be developed?

Well there’s more than just Node and Deno too. Cloudflare workers, etc. If you want portability across different worker runtimes and not just Deno, you’ll still want to avoid heavy Node API usage.
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