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Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

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Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#431

Post by DennisP »

katbyte wrote: post #236
virtualritz wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough. But if you think this line of reasoning through, cars should have never been admitted on the road in the first place. The issue I see is lack of transparency. If the % of accidents that can be avoided is provably much higher than those caused by Tesla's self-driving tech, an informed argument could be made in favor or against. But with Tesla withholding the information in the leak there is just FUD aroun…

no, no they shouldn't have. At least not without tesla taking full accountability and liability for every accident on autopilot. other manufacturers are slowly rolling out more self driving like tech, AND taking on liability.

Since GP hasn't responded yet...I think you missed their point. When they said "if you think this line of reasoning through, cars should have never been admitted on the road in the first place," I think they're referring to all cars. When Ford introduced the Model T, it killed plenty of people. Ford was, in your words, "harming lives to pursue this." In the process it revolutionized transportation.

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#432

Post by otterley »

mattigames wrote: post #248
otterley wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the U.S., product-liability law allows you to sue the product's manufacturer (and everyone else in its supply chain including retailer); you don't have to sue the driver under some sort of "negligent ownership" theory. (IAAL, but this is greatly simplified -- consult a licensed attorney.)

Except guns of course, because... America.

The argument that a firearm that kills or injures someone when used correctly is a defective product is a difficult one to make because, well, that's what it was designed to do. However, if a poorly-designed or -built firearm blows up in the user's hand, then that would probably be considered defective, and the injured person might well prevail on a defective-product liability claim.

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#433

Post by re-thc »

JumpinJack_Cash wrote: post #352
TheCaptain4815 wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point was Elon has an incredible track record of success which follows a formula of overhype, delays, and eventual achievement if not overachievement. You seem to have a more personal vendetta against him, I’m just looking at his insane success and envying hype/ management style

Success is measured by hypothetical subtraction. If you disappeared Tesla, SpaceX, Boring, Twitter and even Mr.Musk overnight, the world would look exactly the same the following morning. Try and disappear Apple, Microsoft, Cisco, Boeing, JPMorgan, BankofAmerica, Exxon, Royal Dutch Shell overnight. You'll have chaos and civil unrest within a week. That's where your quality of life comes from, sure it's not as excitin…

> If you disappeared Tesla, SpaceX, Boring, Twitter and even Mr.Musk overnight, the world would look exactly the same the following morning.

No it won't. Where would the Twitter trolls go? They'd flood the streets. If Twitter had disappeared no 1 can announce for president anymore!

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#434

Post by advael »

jjoonathan wrote: post #315
advael wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if there's a video of FSD that isn't a "fail compilation", it was probably filmed and/or uploaded because it showed off the FSD doing well, and may even be subject to, effectively, the editorial review of google (whether via algorithms or moderators), which could easily depend on the size of google's advertising relationship with tesla on a given day (or how heavily they want to push the safety of self-driving ca…

> if there's a video of FSD that isn't a "fail compilation" If? FSD drives a million miles a day. There are a few.

I think that was neither unclear from the sentence nor a particularly interesting detail to fixate on

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#435

Post by firecall »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #351
TheCaptain4815 wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point was Elon has an incredible track record of success which follows a formula of overhype, delays, and eventual achievement if not overachievement. You seem to have a more personal vendetta against him, I’m just looking at his insane success and envying hype/ management style

> My point was Elon has an incredible track record of success which follows a formula of overhype, delays, and eventual achievement if not overachievement. His biggest success is the rocket industry. Let's examine top competitors - corrupt ULA which flies rockets on 50 year old engines and does cost+ contracts, his other competitor was Russia, a corrupt kleptocracy that stopped innovating when USSR fell apart. Russia…

Agreed on some points.

Although I do think Tesla did take advantage of their head start. But it’s clear that the pandemic and issues with China and supply chains are hampering them globally.

And sure, Tesla launched successful Electric cars and woke the market up when they realised consumers actually really would switch.

But it’s not like other manufacturers couldn’t do it, they just chose not to.

The biggest thing Tesla did was actually making it happen with vehicles that were significantly differentiated and looked like the future!

In a market where companies stopped selling sedans in favour of SUVs, Teslas came along with the model 3 and then model Y, and showed people will choose electric tech over SUV form factor.

People weren’t buying ICE sedans because they were largely garbage!

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#436

Post by DennisP »

MauroIksem wrote: post #391
joshspankit wrote: post #367

Is it just me, or are these numbers almost low enough to be labelled positive PR? > The Tesla files contain more than 2,400 self-acceleration complaints and more than 1,500 braking function problems, including 139 cases of unintentional emergency braking and 383 reported phantom stops resulting from false collision warnings. The number of crashes is more than 1000. A table of incidents involving driver assistance sys…

People are just not reporting them. My model 3 does something scary at least a few times a month but I've never reported any.

Number of actual accidents per million miles is the important stat though, and Tesla appears to be doing reasonably well on that front.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-fsd-beta-safety-crash-statis...

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#437

Post by otterley »

MauroIksem wrote: post #391
joshspankit wrote: post #367

Is it just me, or are these numbers almost low enough to be labelled positive PR? > The Tesla files contain more than 2,400 self-acceleration complaints and more than 1,500 braking function problems, including 139 cases of unintentional emergency braking and 383 reported phantom stops resulting from false collision warnings. The number of crashes is more than 1000. A table of incidents involving driver assistance sys…

People are just not reporting them. My model 3 does something scary at least a few times a month but I've never reported any.

Why not?

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#438

Post by otterley »

rmbyrro wrote: post #404
ChatGTP wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same I have an old Suzuki and I wouldn't get rid of it for anything. On the other hand, I think the whole concept of cars is the actual problem, especially heavier cars. The tire dust alone is enough to think about weening ourselves off the project. Then there is strip mining the earth for cobalt and all the other nasty shit in the devices, it's pretty bad. Where I live e-bikes are really taking off, to me e-bikes an…

Don't ebikes generate tire dust as well? By "public transport" you mean shared ebikes? I don't think this can be a mainstream public transport solution if we want to move forward. Ebikes are unsafe, for starters. I expect a lot worse security issues than what's being reported with Teslas...

The question is not "doesn't the alternative have the same problem in kind"? It's "does the alternative have the same problem to the same degree?" Certainly, bikes have tires too, but bikes weigh a tiny fraction of an automobile, have half the number of tires, and generate a tiny fraction of the dust, per unit distance. We can't let perfect be the enemy of significantly better.

> I don't think this can be a mainstream public transport solution if we want to move forward.

The cities of Copenhagen and Amsterdam beg to differ. Bicycles are first-class citizens there in terms of transport.

> Ebikes are unsafe, for starters.

Do you have any stats on that?

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#439

Post by sinuhe69 »

jasonlfunk wrote: post #276

When does a thief become a whistleblower? It seems to me that something really dangerous or illegal needs to be going on to morally justify publicly releasing a 100GB worth of (presumably unfiltered) private company data.

The data also contains salaries information and private addresses of Tesla employees, which clearly don’t belong to the category of “whistler blower data”, even under EU laws.

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#440

Post by DennisP »

liendolucas wrote: post #196
advael wrote: post #6

Gatekeep, gaslight, girlboss The official policy to deprive customers and victims of information as much as possible is shocking from the standpoint of being flagrantly, cynically customer-hostile to the point of probable illegality, but it's right out of both Musk's normal playbook and that of his erstwhile colleagues at e.g. Paypal For me, cars cross a very key danger threshold, which I express like this: "I am tru…

I'll go a bit further... Do we really need computers on four wheels? Can't we just have simple electric vehicles without all the high-tech? No distracting screens, no computer for other than just governing the electric engine, no fancy car locks, and so on. I don't understand why we need to put so much technology in a vehicle. Honestly, it seems to me that is absolutely unnecessary tech, ridiculous. I'd like to have…

> a car that you can actually REPAIR by yourself

If Aptera manages to scale up production, it looks like they'll deliver that part at least. They're promising to make all the manuals and parts available to anyone.

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