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Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

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Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#131

Post by otterley »

panarky wrote: post #93
jacquesm wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bigger problem is that I am trusting my life to you using it. This goes way beyond defective product and normal risk, the fact that these things happen endangers everybody on the road, not just those that decided to throw in their lot with Tesla.

If I refuse to use a product because I think it's too dangerous, but I die anyway because of your use of the dangerous product, does my estate sue you personally for gross negligence, or must my estate sue the maker of the product? Naturally if my estate sues you personally, your defense would be that you didn't know the product was dangerous. Perhaps if the whistleblower's leak is widely publicized, that would weake…

In the U.S., product-liability law allows you to sue the product's manufacturer (and everyone else in its supply chain including retailer); you don't have to sue the driver under some sort of "negligent ownership" theory.

(IAAL, but this is greatly simplified -- consult a licensed attorney.)

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#132

Post by diebeforei485 »

rcxdude wrote: post #92
belltaco wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it sells the world's best selling car at a high margin? And is double the price of the Toyota Corolla it dethroned. https://electrek.co/2023/05/25/tesla-model-y-is-now-the-worl... If one gets news about Tesla only from HN then it does seem Tesla is ridiculous, because only negative stories tend to get upvoted and positive ones buried.

Still doesn't justify its valuation. Tesla is very far from worthless but nowhere near worth its stock price.

> Tesla is very far from worthless but nowhere near worth its stock price.

Stock price is based on future expectations, not past value. Tesla is still growing very fast.

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#133

Post by throwaway2214 »

advael wrote: post #6

Gatekeep, gaslight, girlboss The official policy to deprive customers and victims of information as much as possible is shocking from the standpoint of being flagrantly, cynically customer-hostile to the point of probable illegality, but it's right out of both Musk's normal playbook and that of his erstwhile colleagues at e.g. Paypal For me, cars cross a very key danger threshold, which I express like this: "I am tru…

[flagged]

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#134

Post by keneda7 »

dmbche wrote: post #123
iknowstuff wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every customer complaint about unintended acceleration of Teslas was proven in court to be the fault of the customer confusing the pedals. The accelerator pedal has two independent sensors measuring input - they both have to agree, and no input on the brake pedal must be detected for the vehicle to accelerate. They go a step further. They use their cameras to detect the environment and significantly slow down acceler…

Would you have a link to that? I'd be interested to look. As a side note, I've never heard of confusing the pedals as an issue for ANY car, so if Telsa's get people to confuse them enough to bring them to court, it's probably bad design. Edit: The US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimates 16,000 accidents per year in the United States occur when drivers intend to apply the brake but mistakenly apply…

I googled driver confuses pedals and got a ton of results. Surprisingly it happens pretty often. Makes me a little nervous.

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#136

Post by meowkit »

dmbche wrote: post #71
zizee wrote: post #44

How different is this from any other similar sized companies behaviour? This site doesn't seem that impartial/unbiased. From a linked article on Tesla: > It’s also worth noting that the above email was sent after 2 a.m. Pacific, which isn’t specifically relevant to the faked video. But it does make it look like Musk is a loser with no friends or anything else to do other than work. Loser.

Is what you raise relevant? Is it fine if everybody does it? Is the leak not real because you found a link to it on an unimpartial site? Edit:spelling

The leak can be real, but the narrative around the leak is important.

My read from this link to a story about a story:

~1000 crashes related to autopilot reported for the 2.6 million autopilot enabled vehicles shipped in the reported time frame.

.04% total failures. How many of these were user created and not the fault of the car? How many of the failures from the car were specific to that cars hardware vs the software? Was it a Tesla hardware failure or an OEM device failure?

I’m not gonna do a full analysis, but whenever I re contextualize myself on car crash statistics I am reminded that Tesla failures represent an insignificant fraction of all failures.

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#137

Post by olyjohn »

iknowstuff wrote: post #97
sandofsky wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a Toyota hid an “unintended acceleration” bug, it was a scandal that resulted in a $1.2B fine. https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyota-pay-12b-hiding-deadly-...

Every customer complaint about unintended acceleration of Teslas was proven in court to be the fault of the customer confusing the pedals. The accelerator pedal has two independent sensors measuring input - they both have to agree, and no input on the brake pedal must be detected for the vehicle to accelerate. They go a step further. They use their cameras to detect the environment and significantly slow down acceler…

It was the same with Toyota too. Car and Driver did an article and summarized the unintended acceleration cases and it turned out most people were intoxicated. Same thing with Audi back in the early 90s. People were pressing the wrong pedals and blaming the car. Audi still lost and Toyota still lost.

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#138

Post by orpheansodality »

theodric wrote: post #67
devindotcom wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Gatekeep, gaslight, girlboss girlboss...?

It's...a thing. https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/gaslight-gatekeep-girlboss

why is it being applied to a tesla whistleblower post though

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#139

Post by jjoonathan »

jacquesm wrote: post #9
advael wrote: post #6

Gatekeep, gaslight, girlboss The official policy to deprive customers and victims of information as much as possible is shocking from the standpoint of being flagrantly, cynically customer-hostile to the point of probable illegality, but it's right out of both Musk's normal playbook and that of his erstwhile colleagues at e.g. Paypal For me, cars cross a very key danger threshold, which I express like this: "I am tru…

The bigger problem is that I am trusting my life to you using it. This goes way beyond defective product and normal risk, the fact that these things happen endangers everybody on the road, not just those that decided to throw in their lot with Tesla.

Tesla self-driving is better than a bad human driver. There are loads of bad human drivers on the road. Someone has to be liable, but I don't really care if it falls to Musk or a Musk simp. I do care if we kick yet another key technology out of the US only to have to rent it back years later when someone else picks up the torch. Let's not do that.

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#140

Post by batman-farts »

nickff wrote: post #63
threeseed wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should treat Tesla the same as VW during the emissions scandal. Look forward to a criminal fraud investigation, billions in fines, Musk resigning etc.

Did you look at the diesel emission scandal Wiki page? Everyone was 'cheating'; VW was a mid-level 'cheater' which took the brunt of the heat for it.

I say this as someone still driving a pre-emissions-control diesel VW: Volkswagen had long been positioning themselves as the market leader for diesel passenger cars in the US. Nobody else was doing as much to offer diesels across their lineup, or push them as the "green"/economical option. And they have been the biggest manufacturer in Europe for a long time, so it makes sense that the EU came down on them like a ton of bricks too.

There was a period in the early-mid 2000s where their diesels, along with Mercedes, got pushed out of California and CARB-compliant states. The opinion among diesel enthusiasts was that this was intentional on the part of CARB not just over NOx concerns, but also to help the market for hybrids grow. Otherwise, given the TDI's at-the-time superior highway mileage and the then-prevailing diesel prices, the VW diesel would have presented as the superior option to the Prius for a lot of people.

During this period, there was still a lot of pent-up demand for the VW and Mercedes diesels in California. Any car coming from out of state with at least 8,500 miles on the odometer was considered a "used car" and could be registered no matter the powerplant, so there was quite a cottage industry of putting that much mileage on brand-new out-of-state diesels and then turning them around on LA or SF Craigslist. The market here was primed to buy VW, but VW cheated to get in a position to sell new "CARB-compliant" diesels again. I'm not surprised that the prosecutors went after them disproportionately.

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