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Sam Altman Says OpenAI Will Leave the EU If There's Any Real AI Regulation

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Re: Sam Altman Says OpenAI Will Leave the EU If There's Any Real AI Regulation

#161

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

bionhoward wrote: post #60
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am a fan of no regulation unless actual harm has been shown first. I used to be, but some of the modern crop of CEOs has taken the wind out of that. They have done tremendous damage, very quickly, and the regulation has been unable to keep up, until severe damage has already been done. Once the bullet has left the gun, it can't be stuffed back in.

Can you be more specific, with examples? Who did what?

I can be, but, really, why should I?

It would take about twenty seconds with Google, to come up with hundreds of examples. Some, better than others.

Re: Sam Altman Says OpenAI Will Leave the EU If There's Any Real AI Regulation

#162

Post by scarface74 »

ilyt wrote: post #159
scarface74 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the law is that simple, then why did it take 11 chapters and 99 sections to say that?

If you don't store user data none of those applies. If you do want to store the data, those just specify what and how with enough detail that battalion of Facebook lawyers can't go around it. It's mostly sensible when you get around to implementing it. For example if you store data for say CCTV purpose, you have to tell people they are being monitored, for what reason, who administers the data etc. Article 6 covers f…

And a small EU salesmen had to shut down because he was using Shopify…

Re: Sam Altman Says OpenAI Will Leave the EU If There's Any Real AI Regulation

#163

Post by scarface74 »

ilyt wrote: post #160
scarface74 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet small businesses in the EU are still getting caught up in it.

Of course, because vast variety of businesses had no security whatsoever and a bunch of PII could just be accessed by anyone on file share. Vast majority of cases are "we haven't even tried in the first place" And majority of fines are in range of 4 to low 5 digit. At least from what I observed the "mistakes" are generally fined pretty low if organization can prove it took necessary steps in goodwill, but stuff like…

One of the small businesses in question wanted to use Shopify and got fined.

Re: Sam Altman Says OpenAI Will Leave the EU If There's Any Real AI Regulation

#164

Post by revelio »

xiphias2 wrote: post #137
ttlsa wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If, hypothetically, a SkyNet like AI actually existed, how much damage to humanity would you be ok with as long as productivity and quality of life went up went up for those who were spared? Let's assume that you and your loved ones are among those who have been guaranteed safety by this AI. I am sorry if the tone comes across as snarky. Not my intention. Genuinely curious.

My comment was about if it's starting to exist, EU regulatation won't stop its power and influence. If everyone uses ChatSkyNet for programming (or even ChatGPT-4), but EU is not allowed, EU will simply lose its competitiveness in creating products.

Sadly, the EU has already lost that competitiveness through many other similar regulatory situations. The real risk is not competitiveness in creating products, that's a lost battle already :( The real risk is losing competitiveness in even being able to work for the American companies that are creating products.

Re: Sam Altman Says OpenAI Will Leave the EU If There's Any Real AI Regulation

#165

Post by revelio »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #161
bionhoward wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you be more specific, with examples? Who did what?

I can be, but, really, why should I? It would take about twenty seconds with Google, to come up with hundreds of examples. Some, better than others.

They may seem obvious to you, but to a lot of us, it's not obvious at all. Vague notions of "damage" could refer to anything, like harming competition. Different value systems and all that.

Re: Sam Altman Says OpenAI Will Leave the EU If There's Any Real AI Regulation

#166

Post by revelio »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #127
cm2012 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Modern crop of CEOs" All of those examples are primarily damage done pre 80s

Phthalates? Aren't those currently an issue, right now, in water? Aren't they currently being used in plastic? Or did I get the name wrong?

The name is right but the claims of clear badness are suspect.

https://unherd.com/2021/03/the-truth-about-spermageddon/

Re: Sam Altman Says OpenAI Will Leave the EU If There's Any Real AI Regulation

#167

Post by revelio »

Tangurena2 wrote: post #141
robertlagrant wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just thinking about the wrong level of regulation. Not all goods need to have CE marking, or get audited regularly, or anything like that. I can go to someone who makes furniture in their shop and buy that furniture without them ever contacting the British Standards Institute.

You can't buy it if you can't agree about what money is. That's one of those pesky regulations.

The regulations forbid competing currencies (sorta), but people create currencies for trade even when no government is doing so.

Re: Sam Altman Says OpenAI Will Leave the EU If There's Any Real AI Regulation

#168

Post by revelio »

dijit wrote: post #37

I've spoken to many people in the USA that are anti-union and anti-regulation. The impression they have is that regulation is used to stomp out small businesses (and unions have some propensity for corruption). The EU regulation does not come with the same feelings, aside from the very aggressive FUD around GDPR. EU regulation is typically seen as something for the consumer/public good and not intended to stifle comp…

Feelings from whom? Because for sure that's a very common feeling in Europe about EU regulations. It was a big part of the political campaigning around Brexit, even.

You even admit this - nobody feels this way, except for the people who very strongly feel that way but their feelings are "FUD" so don't count?

Re: Sam Altman Says OpenAI Will Leave the EU If There's Any Real AI Regulation

#169

Post by revelio »

ilyt wrote: post #52
spacebanana7 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> EU market is too big to ignore It's not what it used to be. The EU's makes up around 15-20% of world GDP depending on how you measure it, but that's subject to disproportionality high taxes and compliance costs. Meta only gets around 10% of its ad earnings from the EU [1]. I'm not aware of the figures for Google and Microsoft or whether such figures are even available. Many global banks left the US or reduced it to…

Tell investors you're throwing away 10% of the market and they will fire you > The EU's makes up around 15-20% of world GDP depending on how you measure it, but that's subject to disproportionality high taxes and compliance costs. That would have to be corrected for tech spendings, for example the fact asia produces most of the electronics have zero effect on facebook's business profits.

> Tell investors you're throwing away 10% of the market and they will fire you

Really not. 10% extra market share is something for large companies to worry about, the sort of thing that requires big spend in localization. For a company the size of OpenAI, there are bigger fish to fry. Europeans will use VPNs and route payments via resellers rather than not have access to the latest tech.

Re: Sam Altman Says OpenAI Will Leave the EU If There's Any Real AI Regulation

#170

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

revelio wrote: post #165
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can be, but, really, why should I? It would take about twenty seconds with Google, to come up with hundreds of examples. Some, better than others.

They may seem obvious to you, but to a lot of us, it's not obvious at all. Vague notions of "damage" could refer to anything, like harming competition. Different value systems and all that.

Well, the original post was "Stop me if you can."

Basically, if there's no rule saying I can't do it, then I should do it, until rules are developed to stop it; regardless of the morality or danger.

I suspect that one way to make people more careful, is to make future rules and regulations retroactive.

For example, if I had developed a fintech product that was a legal ponzi scheme, or a downloader that is a legal way of accessing copyrighted material, because of loopholes, and those loopholes are closed, after the fact (happens all the time), then, if the new remedies can be applied to the "legal" implementations that were in effect before the closing of the loopholes, I suspect that it would make the "loopholer" a wee bit more cautious.

But that won't happen. There's way too many ways that it could go off the rails.

So people will keep on bending, folding, spindling, and mutilating, until they are stopped by a steel door, slamming down in front of them.

I strongly suspect that a lot of companies are set up to harvest as much as possible, before the door slams, so they can reap the benefits.

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