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Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

nytimes.com

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Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#531

Post by anigbrowl »

hparadiz wrote: post #400
anigbrowl wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because the media has shown them school shootings, and has told them to be anxious about them What argument are you making, that news outlets should not report this? I don't think much coaching is required for people to feel anxious about the idea getting shot by a homicidal maniac, even if the probability of a homicidal maniac showing up is relatively low. Applying your logic, we should avoid having reports or drill…

Reporting about it in media causes more of them actually so yea. They should stop reporting on them. Our states are as big as countries so they really should be considered separately. Just because Texas had one doesn't mean a child in California is suddenly in more danger. But actually reporting on it in news media does increase the likelihood because it puts the idea into a shooter's head. To put it another way the…

Reporting about it in media causes more of them actually so yea.

There isn't good evidence to support this claim, though it's popular with people who have never thought about such issues before.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#532

Post by anigbrowl »

lumb63 wrote: post #441
nullsense wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, you know, compare the number of school shootings to literally any other country in the world? The fact that there are school shootings for the media to report on at all is so crazy to me.

Why do you care so much about school shootings specifically? Shouldn’t be the goal to reduce overall child mortality? In which case it doesn’t make sense to focus on school shootings. They’re a rounding error in child mortality. Compare actual death rates between first-world countries to see what I mean; the US lags behind its Western peers, but the presence of school shootings, which is generally referred to as a de…

Nobody was talking about overall child mortality. Please abstain from rhetorical sleight-of-hand.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#533

Post by anigbrowl »

clove wrote: post #450
theGnuMe wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American’s think guns keep them free. In fact they just hold them hostage.

"American is think guns keep them free. In fact Americans just hold guns hostage." What a sentence.

You might want to reread the HN guidelines. While the comment was clumsily worded, the meaning was quite obvious.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#534

Post by anigbrowl »

jlawson wrote: post #409
lumb63 wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> School shootings are such a regular feature of American life […] Media certainly amplifies the awareness of problems Case in point: in 2022 there were 51 school shootings [1]. Certainly more than I’d like there to be, but in a nation with about 129,000 schools [2], I certainly wouldn’t call them a “regular feature”. If students are in school for 18 years, let’s say, to include pre-K, Kindergarten, and an undergrad…

People are getting confused by the number posted which is badly distorting the discussion. 51 is NOT the number of intentional massacres of students or staff. It is the number of shootings on school grounds of all types _including accidents_. Here is a real example from the list: "A student was shot and injured when a sheriff’s deputy’s gun accidentally discharged in a classroom during a law enforcement vocational tr…

The fact that so many here on all sides seem to think that intentional massacres could possibly be happening on a weekly basis in America is a testament to the distortionary power of the media

Nobody is making that argument or getting confused by these numbers. The Edweek figures were linked by someone complaining about media influence.

"School shootings" in the sense of intentional mass murders are nearly nonexistent.

There are only a few such incidents each year but that is far from 'nearly nonexistent'. Perhaps you'd care to quantify what you consider to be the acceptable number of deaths from shooting sprees?

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#535

Post by anigbrowl »

galdosdi wrote: post #486
escapedmoose wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But in other developed countries, kids still die from car crashes and swimming pools. It’s less of a “one is too many” argument for me and more a question of “if everyone else is able to get this right, how the hell are we getting it so wrong?” Looking around the world really drives the point home that these are avoidable fatalities.

That's a great argument for policymaking, but that's not what we're talking about -- we're talking about whether the children themselves should be worried sick, literally, about it. They clearly should not. Obesity and car wrecks will kill far more of them, and dealing with those issues is far more preventable. Smash the soda vending machines in their lunchrooms, and you'll save far more lives, plus avoid traumatizin…

Once again, there is a significant qualitative difference between accidental or medically-related deaths, and someone actively attempting to end your life. Failing to acknowledge this is a significantly larger cognitive blind spot than the frequentist posters above are complaining about.

It's not like there is a complete lack of advocacy about auto safety or school diets. You might remember that during the Obama administration there was a campaign for more healthy school lunches, preferring vegetables and fruits over salty/sugary snacks, and extolling the value of exercise.

My original comment mentioned school shootings as an example of an issue that teens are understandably concerned about, because while the probability is low it's also a fundamentally horrific situation. I'm rather surprised by the rhetorical contortions so many people are putting themselves through to argue that having several massacres a year just in schools is nothing to worry about.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#536

Post by badpun »

quickcheque wrote: post #512
badpun wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was pretty much allowed to do whatever I wanted. Overall, I was punished only once in my teenage years (was told I had to skip a ski trip because I came home very drunk one night, at 15 or 16 yo). All in all I'd say I did pretty good, I'm already FIREd at 42 years old.

And are you following the same approach with your own kids (if any)?

I don't have kids.

I think the approach should highly depend on the kid. I for one was good at academic subjects and also reasonably concerned about my future to put in the work at school (I never ran off with the circus etc.), so hands-off approach worked well with me. It might not work as well with someone completely different.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#537

Post by NoImmatureAdHom »

kredd wrote: post #436
NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a cumulative 0.7% chance over 18 (or 22?) years, or 0.035%-ish per year. Not only is that not the right way to think about things even if shootings were random, the numbers aren't correct. The Edweek numbers are doing what they were designed to do, which is mislead you and parent / grandparent. They are advocacy numbers, deliberately distorted to make things seem as bad as possible in order to drive clicks to…

I still think it’s a very cultural thing, since even 0.01% per year would be a huge number for your child to be in a school shooting. Maybe it’s an “outsider perspective”, but school shootings is not even a talking point in most of the places outside of US, thus anything that’s above 0.001% is a lot.

Yep, you're right. In other places, places where pistols are hard to get, violence still happens...it's just somewhat less deadly. UK for instance:

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/8/10/e023114

The children just get stabbed instead

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#538

Post by NoImmatureAdHom »

anigbrowl wrote: post #530
NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a cumulative 0.7% chance over 18 (or 22?) years, or 0.035%-ish per year. Not only is that not the right way to think about things even if shootings were random, the numbers aren't correct. The Edweek numbers are doing what they were designed to do, which is mislead you and parent / grandparent. They are advocacy numbers, deliberately distorted to make things seem as bad as possible in order to drive clicks to…

This is an asinine argument, as a per-capita comparison with just about any other country shows. I'm not endorsing the Edweek numbers (which were brought into this discussion by someone asserting that school shootings are not a big deal). I reject your argument that the media is to blame for hyping this. It is not normal to have people go into schools and start shooting children and teachers at random.

I think we agree?

"It is not normal to have people go into schools and start shooting children and teachers at random."

We agree about that. If you mean "it's not okay" OR if you mean "it doesn't happen often".

Per capita comparisons aren't informative because you should care about the ABSOLUTE risk, rather than relative risk.

The ABSOLUTE risk (as I calculate in another comment, charitably about 0.000043% per year per student risk of being killed at school) is extremely small. The fact that it's 5x Greece's or something is irrelevant, because both are tiny. If you're trying to answer the question "How do I make sure my kid grows up happy and healthy?" worrying about school shootings is a waste of time. The kid has a 22x higher likelihood of being killed by drowning, focus on that. Or responsible drug use. Or physical fitness. Or driving safely (or not driving!).

Another basic thing you might want to keep in mind is: kids don't die much. Their overall risk of being killed from ANY cause is quite low. If you're worried about maximizing happiness or something, I wouldn't even worry too much about death. Sure, teach them to swim and when they're little make sure there's a lifeguard, but don't stress about them being killed unless you live in a war zone. (And I recognize that too many people live in war zones, and that's a real problem that real people have)

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#539

Post by tantalor »

Jedd wrote: post #407
tantalor wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> School shootings are such a regular feature of American life... No they're not. > ...that every school holds safety drills for the risk. They also hold drills for tornado, fire, etc. These aren't regular parts of life either; they are emergencies for which people can prepare for the extremely rare chance it actually happens. We could debate the utility or practical implementation of active shooter drills compared t…

> No they're not. Yes, they are. But rather than merely gainsay, I'll support that by observing: a) here in Australia we regularly, consistently, have zero school shootings each year. Can recommend. b) you are probably misunderstanding the meaning of regular, and conflating it with frequent. Halley's Comet is regular - at once every ~76 years. But obviously not frequent. (I'd argue, as per (a), that the USA has too h…

What I mean by "regular" is you can go to any school or place and find it happening.

Bullying is regular in America. It happens in every school.

Police brutality/abuse is regular in America. It happens in every city with a large enough police force.

Pharmaceutical addiction is regular in America. It happens in every town.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#540

Post by Jedd »

tantalor wrote: post #539
Jedd wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No they're not. Yes, they are. But rather than merely gainsay, I'll support that by observing: a) here in Australia we regularly, consistently, have zero school shootings each year. Can recommend. b) you are probably misunderstanding the meaning of regular, and conflating it with frequent. Halley's Comet is regular - at once every ~76 years. But obviously not frequent. (I'd argue, as per (a), that the USA has too h…

What I mean by "regular" is you can go to any school or place and find it happening. Bullying is regular in America. It happens in every school. Police brutality/abuse is regular in America. It happens in every city with a large enough police force. Pharmaceutical addiction is regular in America. It happens in every town.

Okay, so you've redefined regular, and are now surprised the person you're responding to doesn't share your unique definition.

It sounds like instead of just mistakenly using it as a synonym for frequent, you're mistakenly using it to mean something like prevalent or widespread or pervasive.

Either way you're responding to a perfectly valid claim by re-purposing the words used by the parent post and then arguing against that.

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