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Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

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Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#731

Post by dublin »

paulddraper wrote: post #672
sfink wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect this is correct. I find softened onions preferably for a number of uses. Caramelized onions can be too sweet, and soggy/limp. I've even found that leaving a trace of crunch is better in many cases (eg beef bolognese). But don't listen to me, I've never really figured out the difference between cooked yellow, white, and sweet onions, and just buy whatever is available and has the least mold and soft spots. E…

tl;dr When cooking, use yellow. They're cheaper and you need less. --- Yellow onions have a stronger flavor, even after cooking. (Though cooking of course lessen it a lot.) White and sweet are essentially the same, with the latter being slightly sweeter. In the end they do taste similar cooked. Biggest difference is price. Yellow is usually 20% cheaper than white and 40% cheaper than sweet.

Not even close - sweet onions (like Texas 1015s, Vidalias, or Mauis) may be whitish, but they have noticeably more sugar embedded into the structure/tissues of the onion itself. Sweet onions are not white (or yellow) onions, or vice versa. FWIW, Vidalias are a bit less crisp than the others, which helps if you're really after carmelizing, but I find 1015s are the "sweet spot", so to speak, of softenability and enough fiber to hold up so they don't turn to mush.

Red onions are a different flavor profile altogether, and best for some (not all!) Mediterranean or Mexican dishes, or smoked salmon (NOT lox - yuck!) on a bagel with cream cheese and capers.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#732

Post by earthling8118 »

TheReveller wrote: post #636
kqr wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Our induction stove very clearly has two concentric circles of different radii that get hot, and nothing else. If you use cast iron and vary the power slowly you won't notice, but it's very obvious with thinner pots and when you control heat quickly (which is a delight to be able to do in the first place -- yay induction.)

Are you sure that's an induction element? Induction elements don't get hot, only the pan does. Easy way to tell is - does the element switch only turn on when a pan is on top of it?

One minor clarification because it is important: the elements do get hot, but that isn't the mechanism which they use to transfer heat. The element gets hot because it is touching a super hot pan which will transfer some of its heat.

If you want to know how I found this out: I wasn't using my brain and touched the element after spilling something on it. I received a fairly bad burn as a result. I am saying this because saying "the element doesn't get hot" can put the wrong idea in someone's head.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#733

Post by conductr »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #668
conductr wrote: post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not what an average home cook can do regarding knife skills. These services and recipes should be written for their audiences which are likely typical home chefs that don’t handle knifes that well. I’ve been cooking 40 years and have certainly tried to use a knife that way and it always feels unsafe to me. Also, typically requires a very sharp set of knifes which I do keep but I don’t think the average house d…

It's not what an average professional cook can do either but it's still one useful reference on how long it takes to chop garlic. No one is going to follow a pasta recipe that says it takes three hours because they do shit like allocate 4 minutes per clove of garlic.

They should estimate based on a average user. Or at least give more context than a single X minutes. Three hours is a bit excessive as an example but the difference between 20 and 45 minutes is crucial and more representative of common underestimation. They could also suggest things like buying Preminced garlic to eliminate common timely tasks. Instead they tend to go the other way and would be more likely to recommend you go foraging for wild garlic

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#734

Post by occoder »

mtizim wrote: post #613
sanitycheck wrote: post #421

I've had this conversation with people many times, a consequence is that some of them have no idea what caramelised onions actually are - they think it's the state you get to after 10 mins. Thinly slice 10 onions, dump them in a big pot with some oil on a medium heat for 10-15 minutes stirring frequently. Then turn the heat down to low and cook for a further 45-60 mins, check on it and stir every 10 mins or so. When…

You can really speed up the process by adding water at the beginning and essentially steaming the onions. https://youtu.be/rzL07v6w8AA?t=207

> adding water at the beginning and essentially steaming the onions

This is pretty ironic in a thread about the misuse of the term "caramelize".

It's not steaming if you put water into the food directly. It's simply ... cooking, or maybe simmering/stewing.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#735

Post by deprecative »

balderdash wrote: post #699
deprecative wrote: post #638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you get people like me that fail at step one because we cannot "visualize" the steps. I logically understand what those words mean but I have no practical experience with actually doing anything approaching it. The point is, don't think you are the baseline for everyone else. Nobody should give two shits about efficiency with cooking unless your job is to cook efficiently.

“Nobody should give two shits about efficiency with cooking unless your job is to cook efficiently.” That’s like saying you shouldn’t care how long it takes to drive somewhere unless it’s your job to drive there quickly. Cooking at home is one of the easiest ways to save money AND improve your health (if done conscientiously), but many people don’t do it because they are daunted by it, and they think it’s a ton of ti…

The ease of doing something and the efficiency at which you do that thing are entirely unrelated in terms of accomplishing the thing.

Cooking eggs is easy. You can get more efficient by cracking eggs better for instance but is that going to save anything? Maybe a few seconds. Is that meaningful? No. Cooking tends more often to fall into that category than the other.

As you get better at cooking overall, you'll get more efficient. It's the same for nearly any other skill. So don't bother optimizing for efficiency unless it's your job - you'll get there eventually anyway.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#736

Post by occoder »

chongli wrote: post #39

The trick to caramelizing onions (without leaving them overnight in a slow cooker) is to add a bunch of water to the pan and steam them until they’re completely wilted, then boil off the water and add oil. This will cause most of the onion cells to burst, releasing their water, allowing that water to quickly evaporate so that the oil can do its job raising the temperature of all the onions to the point at which the s…

> add a bunch of water to the pan and steam them

This is pretty ironic in a thread about the misuse of the term "caramelize".

It's not steaming if you put water into the food directly. It's simply ... cooking, or maybe simmering/stewing.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#737

Post by supertofu »

I learned to caramelize onions at age 14 from Julia Child's "Art of French Cooking". I learned to make her French Onion soup. Medium-low heat, lots of butter, onions, and a solid hour of stirring creates a jammy, sweet, milk-chocolate-brown onion paste which forms the base for extraordinary onion soup.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#738

Post by gizmo385 »

diffeomorphism wrote: post #115
sfink wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. My favorite is quickie salad recipes. Their times are correct, as long as you happen to have a refrigerator stuffed with containers of chopped vegetables for some reason. I've seen youtube videos where they "make" such salads. It's really not far off from "cooking time: 10 minutes. 3 to pick from the menu, 2 to call for delivery, 5 for it to reach you."

That is exactly what "time" means for recipes and why ingredients list say things like "onions, finely chopped" and not just "onions". Restaurants do have containers with chopped vegetables sitting around for this reason. You might not like this convention, but it is pretty universal. So your complaint sounds like "3 minute angel hair pasta?!?! My water won't even have started boiling by then." Totally understandable…

> Restaurants do have containers with chopped vegetables sitting around for this reason

That might be true, but the folks who are actually reading these recipes aren't restaurant cooks working in a professional kitchen.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#739

Post by gizmo385 »

denton-scratch wrote: post #314
diffeomorphism wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is exactly what "time" means for recipes and why ingredients list say things like "onions, finely chopped" and not just "onions". Restaurants do have containers with chopped vegetables sitting around for this reason. You might not like this convention, but it is pretty universal. So your complaint sounds like "3 minute angel hair pasta?!?! My water won't even have started boiling by then." Totally understandable…

> My water won't even have started boiling by then. So boil your water in a device designed for the purpose: an electric kettle. Takes about a minute.

> Takes about a minute.

Electric kettles are certainly fast, but this feels like an exaggeration. Technology Connections[1] made a good video on this recently and even boiling roughly 1 quart of water (which is significantly less than you'd typically use for something like cooking pasta) required almost 5 minutes to come to boil in an electric kettle.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yMMTVVJI4c

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#740

Post by pkilgore »

grumple wrote: post #499
pkilgore wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just FYI you can easily cook a room temp chicken breast or thigh (or lots of them) 4 minutes a side directly below a broiler on a broiler pan, letting them rest covered for 5 afterwards. Add a minute for the genetic freak 2+ inch thick ones. You will need to pat the moisture off them first and brush with oil.

You may have changed the color of the meat and killed off the bacteria to make it safe to eat, but you didn't make good chicken. It takes time and lower heat to cook through, create good flavor, and get good texture. Sure you can put any food in an incinerator for 2 minutes and it's "cooked", but not really.

> you didn't make good chicken

Great, thanks for your opinion, I'll forward it to the Chef that taught me.

> It takes time and lower heat to cook through, create good flavor, and get good texture.

Got it, there's only one way to cook chicken, good to know.

> Sure you can put any food in an incinerator for 2 minutes and it's "cooked", but not really.

Searing / Incinerating, definitely no difference there, reasonable response, I stand corrected.

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