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A novel the CIA spent a fortune to suppress

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Re: A novel the CIA spent a fortune to suppress

#51

Post by throwaway6734 »

mandmandam wrote: post #40
chpatrick wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the US certainly has some issues but it's still a million times better than Russia et al. There are degrees of evil.

Gobal opinion is pretty clear that Russia are majorly in the wrong right now. However, global opinion hasn't forgotten what America did in the Middle East. And South America. And in America. And is doing still. No country except America thinks that we are "a million times better than Russia", I promise you.

Don't forget about the Marshall plan or the massive amounts of technical advancements due to the US or the billions of people lifted out of poverty due to the US secured global order.

The US has been an imperfect superpower but objectively the most benevolent.

Realistically, what would be a better alternative to US hegemony?

Re: A novel the CIA spent a fortune to suppress

#52

Post by hulitu »

ajuc wrote: post #28
baxtr wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's my main argument when people say: "What they are doing is exactly the same what we did in Iraq/Afghanistan" etc. Yes, it might be true. The big difference: In the West you can actually go out on the street and protest against the acts of your government.

There's a lot of differences. For example, NATO doesn't force countries to join, and doesn't invade countries if they want to leave or join another alliance. See France. In fact - previous instance of russian CIS - Warsaw Pact - was unique among military alliances in the fact that it only invaded its members (Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Afghanistan). It was a prison not a military alliance. And in current CIS Russia sen…

> NATO doesn't force countries to join

NATO doesn't, US does.

But of course it "doesn't force countries".

It just "happenes" after a colour revolution.

Re: A novel the CIA spent a fortune to suppress

#53

Post by lifewallet_dev »

varjag wrote: post #45
lifewallet_dev wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what it is, but okay, I'll probably get banned here for saying that anyways :), the free world woo!

No, you're more likely to simply be downvoted into grey, as the aggregate of HN is not a conspiracist crackpot.

Just that, it is, I've been banned before, for even lighter things...

Re: A novel the CIA spent a fortune to suppress

#54

Post by redeeman »

meghan_rain wrote: post #12

[flagged]

and yet, the CIA, like its equivalents in all other countries, runs completely out of control.

I will happily let you call me names, if i can somehow fool you into simply letting me do WHATEVER i want.

a sitting US democratic senator even went so far as go on national TV and say "the intelligence community has six ways from sunday to get back at you".

Re: A novel the CIA spent a fortune to suppress

#55

Post by _kbh_ »

lifewallet_dev wrote: post #33
mschuster91 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People get silenced in the US every day because they have a different opinions on current events, for example the US proxy war with Russia. Uh, sorry what? It was Russia that decided to invade a sovereign country for annexation. Not the other way around. And of course everyone is free to disagree with your take. You are not being "silenced" or "canceled", you are being told your opinion is completely contrary to fa…

More propaganda, listen to the other side... oh well it's banned everywhere.

> More propaganda, listen to the other side... oh well it's banned everywhere.

What are you talking about this, is literally false, I see pro Russian narratives everywhere, including here, you guys don't get banned despite how despicable the views you hold are.

Support Russias genocidal, torturous, raping war in Ukraine all you want, but don't shout about being banned when you get shouted down by facts.

Re: A novel the CIA spent a fortune to suppress

#56

Post by _kbh_ »

lifewallet_dev wrote: post #26
meghan_rain wrote: post #12

[flagged]

This is propaganda and you don't even know it... People get silenced in the US every day because they have a different opinions on current events, for example the US proxy war with Russia. I always noticed when certain amount of decades pass it's okay to say certain things, like "Allende was assassinated by the CIA", but back then you'd get persecuted to even mention that. Yes, when it doesn't matter you can say what…

> This is propaganda and you don't even know it... People get silenced in the US every day because they have a different opinions on current events, for example the US proxy war with Russia.

The irony of your blatantly false statements is that half of what people express on the war in Ukraine here would cause them to end up in jail in Russia, but the opposite views don't cause you to end up in jail in the west.

Re: A novel the CIA spent a fortune to suppress

#57

Post by redeeman »

hkpack wrote: post #44
lifewallet_dev wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is propaganda and you don't even know it... People get silenced in the US every day because they have a different opinions on current events, for example the US proxy war with Russia. I always noticed when certain amount of decades pass it's okay to say certain things, like "Allende was assassinated by the CIA", but back then you'd get persecuted to even mention that. Yes, when it doesn't matter you can say what…

> for example the US proxy war with Russia. Yeah, as a Ukrainian, this triggers me well, good job. I think that it is good that you feel being silenced. The world in which a person who have absolutely zero idea what he is talking about will feel cheered, is a very scary to me. Until then, there is hope.

[flagged]

Re: A novel the CIA spent a fortune to suppress

#58

Post by oefrha »

mschuster91 wrote: post #46
paol wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both things can be true. Yes, Russia is 100% responsible for this war, and yes, the US (and others) are fighting a proxy war through Ukraine in good old cold war style.

Are the allies of Ukraine supposed to look away at the first time since the OG 1933-45 Nazis that someone tries to re-draw borders and annex countries using war?! What Russia did was a complete and utter shart on the international rule of law.

Propaganda’s working very well if you actually believe this is the first war since WWII to redraw land borders. And I’m not even counting the invade-and-install-a-puppet kind of wars.

Re: A novel the CIA spent a fortune to suppress

#59

Post by throwaway6734 »

baxtr wrote: post #22
meghan_rain wrote: post #12

[flagged]

That's my main argument when people say: "What they are doing is exactly the same what we did in Iraq/Afghanistan" etc. Yes, it might be true. The big difference: In the West you can actually go out on the street and protest against the acts of your government.

They're fundamentally different wars in their motivation as well.

The US invaded foolishly invaded Iraq and Afghanistan with the ultimate end goal of destroying evil power structures Sadam/Taliban and trying to establish liberal institutions. No one was trying to destroy local cultures or languages.

Russia's invasion of Ukraine, just like WW2 Germany's, has the end goal of genociding Ukrainian culture and subjugating the Ukrainian people

Re: A novel the CIA spent a fortune to suppress

#60

Post by paol »

mejutoco wrote: post #39
paol wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both things can be true. Yes, Russia is 100% responsible for this war, and yes, the US (and others) are fighting a proxy war through Ukraine in good old cold war style.

Another way to say it without the added narrative is to simply say Ukraine has allies, and the USA is one of them.

I wouldn't call the term proxy war a narrative. It's a term with a definition, which applies here.

This is also a "both things can be true" case. Obviously the supporters of a proxy war are allies of the party they're supporting.

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