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Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

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Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#151

Post by hanniabu »

neom wrote: post #13

I still think out of all the...unique... things Elon has said... work from home is morally wrong has to take the cake. I try to spend time looking at things as radically as I can. I think it's helpful to accept folks views as widely as possible, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around work from home being morally wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5OHFt8QyiU I was on a bicycle ride listening to this intervie…

> I'm still trying to wrap my head around work from home being morally wrong.

By being a selfish individual and wanting to work remotely you are devaluing a wealthy investor's commercial real estate all because you didn't want to waste a tenth of your day pointlessly commuting to the office to do something that could have been done at home

Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#152

Post by cheeze »

throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #25

Quit your jobs, peeps, or unionize. Gotta put your money where your mouth is.

It's totally just that easy, right?

Most folks don't have the privilege of just up and qutting their jobs. Especially in tech right now.

Sure, FAANG salaries are high, but many people have mortgages, kids, etc.

Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#153

Post by avocabros »

Swizec wrote: post #111
superfrank wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It has been proven that knowledge workers can work productively and efficiently without being required to be in the office a set number of days. I'm a big proponent of "I don't care where you work as long as your work gets done" and have been since before covid, but I haven't come across anything that actually proves that, so... source? If there's a good study out there that shows that that is true, I'd love to see…

> more work completed, but less coordination between teams may not be a net positive Here's one anecdata: I have never in any job coordinated as much with my team mates and other teams as I have in the past ~3 years of working remotely. The trick wasn't that we're remote or on-site, what increased our level of coordination was how we work. As a team instead of as a random grouping of individuals.

It's worth considering whether that's a positive, or if the extra coordination is required simply because there are fewer and slower information channels available to communicate vs. on-site.

Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#154

Post by ineedasername »

polka_haunts_us wrote: post #110
kcplate wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s my opinion that people feel like they are more productive at WFH, but it’s a bit of a hard metric to actually measure. I get the sense that the freedom and flexibility might create a feeling of personal productivity to accomplish many things (not just career related) they couldn’t before WFH, but as for job productivity…I bet it’s probably a wash overall. I say this as a remote worker who wouldn’t want to RTO—be…

My first job was 40 hours a week in an office, my current job has been full WFH because of covid, transitioning into 3 days in the office. I can tell you factually that the days I'm actually at home in this hybrid setup that I'm way less productive in terms of getting my actual job done than I am days I'm in the office. I think when I was full WFH my at home productivity was actually much higher. However, the days I'…

I've noticed a similar trend in myself. WFH was, averaged out by day, (to the extent I can objectively do that through my own memory) more productive when I was 100% WFH than now, where I am 40-60% WFH. Overall I think it's probably a wash: I think I'm a bit more focused when in the office now than pre-covid, which makes up for the the less focused time at at home.

However there may be less tangible benefits, even if overall productivity is a wash, to having the WFH times. 1) Is the obvious work/life balance. Everything that comes with the convenience of not having to commute, freedom to intersperse everyday household chores during the workday even when it means extending working hours a little later, etc. 2) Is that when I'm WFH I seem to be a little less concerned with the immediate work issues and more likely to drift off into peripheral & speculative projects, things that may yield less results in the short term but might (too soon to really say) yield more in the long term.

Overall I think my general output is about the same, but I'm more content, and perhaps (though not definitively) doing things that will be more productive in the long term.

But there are countless different jobs and responsibilities and personalities that intersect in a way that doesn't lend itself to a single one size fits all rule. But unfortunately, "One rule for all" tends to be the top down approach in most work environments.

Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#155

Post by avocabros »

908B64B197 wrote: post #71
TexanFeller wrote: post #52

These protesters are just going to accelerate outsourcing. If companies can't get the benefits of in-office Americans and are forced into having a remote workforce they might as well get them for 1/4 of the price from Central and South America.

> they might as well get them for 1/4 of the price from Central and South America. Where can I find these mythical Central and South Americans that are "just as qualified as US engineers" and 1/4 of the price? I keep hearing about them, but the only devs I've met who would match that description were very much charging US rates.

I'd guess that most software work doesn't require super-specialized roles. You can get good quality engineers for generalist tasks (web app dev, API dev, etc.) all over the world.

I agree, the end game for remote work for non-specialists isn't an obvious positive for those in HCOL countries

Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#156

Post by WesternWind »

neom wrote: post #13

I still think out of all the...unique... things Elon has said... work from home is morally wrong has to take the cake. I try to spend time looking at things as radically as I can. I think it's helpful to accept folks views as widely as possible, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around work from home being morally wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5OHFt8QyiU I was on a bicycle ride listening to this intervie…

Hasn't work from home been shown to improve worker efficiency and happiness too?

Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#157

Post by thegrimmest »

ok_dad wrote: post #103
s1artibartfast wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You tell that to car manufacturers in Detroit.

That happened because Detroit manufacturers failed to keep up with quality and supply chain innovations, plus the lack of smaller cars during the energy crisis. Asian manufacturers ate Detroit’s lunch AND dinner, it wasn’t the evil unions screwing things up.

It's pretty well documented in primary sources that just about every manufacturer has moved their factories in pursuit of lower labour costs. Jurisdictions without labour protection regulation tend to unsurprisingly have lower costs for unskilled and semi-skilled labour. This isn't just about unions, but (very costly) safety regulations too.

This was all a fully predicted outcome of international free trade. US-based manufacturers simply can't compete with unregulated labour pools of people willing to work capably in toxic and dangerous conditions for most of their waking lives just to survive. It's the same reason we have to import enormous amounts of agricultural labour.

Depending on your political leanings you may take this as a cry to deregulate labour, or to increase tariffs. The status quo however dooms most domestic manufacturing to be noncompetitive.

Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#158

Post by LouisSayers »

cebert wrote: post #5

I’m so proud of these workers uniting and fighting back on RTO mandates. It has been proven that knowledge workers can work productively and efficiently without being required to be in the office a set number of days.

... and my old housemates have proven to me that some people just slack off and do hardly any work when "working from home".

Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#159

Post by jredwards »

LapsangGuzzler wrote: post #20
neom wrote: post #13

I still think out of all the...unique... things Elon has said... work from home is morally wrong has to take the cake. I try to spend time looking at things as radically as I can. I think it's helpful to accept folks views as widely as possible, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around work from home being morally wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5OHFt8QyiU I was on a bicycle ride listening to this intervie…

Pure speculation, but my guess is that he’s invested in the commercial real estate market and hoping for a turnaround. I don’t think it’s some profound or insane ideology he has, I think he’s just trying to prop up CRE like he does with crypto. He’s famous for buying distressed commercial properties and for gaslighting, it just makes sense and the whole moral argument was a great way to get people talking about it.

I don't think you have to get that creative.

The man sells cars. He's invested in people commuting.

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