Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns • Hacker News Board

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#431

Post by escapedmoose » Tue, May 23, 2023, 10:52 PM UTC

jlawson wrote: post #409

lumb63 wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> School shootings are such a regular feature of American life […] Media certainly amplifies the awareness of problems Case in point: in 2022 there were 51 school shootings [1]. Certainly more than I’d like there to be, but in a nation with about 129,000 schools [2], I certainly wouldn’t call them a “regular feature”. If students are in school for 18 years, let’s say, to include pre-K, Kindergarten, and an undergrad…

People are getting confused by the number posted which is badly distorting the discussion. 51 is NOT the number of intentional massacres of students or staff. It is the number of shootings on school grounds of all types _including accidents_. Here is a real example from the list: "A student was shot and injured when a sheriff’s deputy’s gun accidentally discharged in a classroom during a law enforcement vocational tr…

Man, I don’t know what to say. 32 student deaths from on-campus shootings in a single year still seems outrageously high to me.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#432

Post by JoeyJoJoJr » Tue, May 23, 2023, 10:53 PM UTC

nostrebored wrote: post #421

Jedd wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No they're not. Yes, they are. But rather than merely gainsay, I'll support that by observing: a) here in Australia we regularly, consistently, have zero school shootings each year. Can recommend. b) you are probably misunderstanding the meaning of regular, and conflating it with frequent. Halley's Comet is regular - at once every ~76 years. But obviously not frequent. (I'd argue, as per (a), that the USA has too h…

Maybe if you had the same attitude about bus fatalities this would be grounded in reality. If we relax the rules to school bus related fatalities there are almost an order of magnitude more.

And many more people die of heart disease than school bus fatalities, which is arguably more preventable. The point is that a school shooting represents an event that is so extreme, and so completely antithetical to society, that the members of any well-functioning society should have enough shared values to give such an event the level of importance it deserves.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#433

Post by escapedmoose » Tue, May 23, 2023, 10:55 PM UTC

nostrebored wrote: post #421

Jedd wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No they're not. Yes, they are. But rather than merely gainsay, I'll support that by observing: a) here in Australia we regularly, consistently, have zero school shootings each year. Can recommend. b) you are probably misunderstanding the meaning of regular, and conflating it with frequent. Halley's Comet is regular - at once every ~76 years. But obviously not frequent. (I'd argue, as per (a), that the USA has too h…

Maybe if you had the same attitude about bus fatalities this would be grounded in reality. If we relax the rules to school bus related fatalities there are almost an order of magnitude more.

I would think if the US had routine bus fatality counts an order of magnitude larger than other countries, then yes, that would be cause to be alarmed about student bus fatalities in the US as well.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#434

Post by 93po » Tue, May 23, 2023, 10:57 PM UTC

adversaryIdiot wrote: post #198

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, this is how you get violent revolutions... people look at the average rent and an average paycheck/pension, realize they literally have nothing left to lose, and once they realize who's to blame, things (sometimes literally) explode. Luckily (/s) we have social media to shift blame off of politicians to other groups of people, to fight eachother instead of the ones who profit from all this.

Luckily we have social media to divide and conqueror us. and more media and junk food to keep us in our homes. Only thing in question now is the home.

Also social media that cracks down violently on dissenting opinions and negativity of any sort. Try to find a non-mainstream political subreddit - they've all been banned.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#435

Post by mixmastamyk » Tue, May 23, 2023, 10:59 PM UTC

trillic wrote: post #182

dundercoder wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked in tech for 20+ years and I have 4 young kids. We allow our teenager use of a locked down smartphone, with a clearly explained zero expectation of privacy. We don't allow any social media on the phone itself. YouTube and other sites can be used under supervision for agreed on lengths of time. Once or twice a week my wife or I will go through their text messages with them and ask questions about anything t…

As a young adult who was recently a teenager, I can't help but feel concerned about the potential dangers of having no expectation of privacy from our parents, especially when it comes to reading through our text messages. While I understand the intention behind it, this practice can easily lead to conflicts and strained relationships. Teenagers are at a stage in their lives where they are trying to establish their i…

> atmosphere of constant surveillance

You've just described modern life—better get used to it early. Never every put anything sensitive in an electronic message.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#436

Post by kredd » Tue, May 23, 2023, 11:04 PM UTC

NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #418

kredd wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re arguing 0.7% chance of being in a school shooting shouldn’t worry a teenager, for other commentators that’s just a mind-blowing percentage. I think that’s a cultural distinction, since if that was the case, most of people I know would do anything that’s possible to avoid their child to beat that statistic.

That's a cumulative 0.7% chance over 18 (or 22?) years, or 0.035%-ish per year. Not only is that not the right way to think about things even if shootings were random, the numbers aren't correct. The Edweek numbers are doing what they were designed to do, which is mislead you and parent / grandparent. They are advocacy numbers, deliberately distorted to make things seem as bad as possible in order to drive clicks to…

I still think it’s a very cultural thing, since even 0.01% per year would be a huge number for your child to be in a school shooting. Maybe it’s an “outsider perspective”, but school shootings is not even a talking point in most of the places outside of US, thus anything that’s above 0.001% is a lot.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#437

Post by [deleted] » Tue, May 23, 2023, 11:12 PM UTC

jiggywiggy wrote: post #355

lumb63 wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> School shootings are such a regular feature of American life […] Media certainly amplifies the awareness of problems Case in point: in 2022 there were 51 school shootings [1]. Certainly more than I’d like there to be, but in a nation with about 129,000 schools [2], I certainly wouldn’t call them a “regular feature”. If students are in school for 18 years, let’s say, to include pre-K, Kindergarten, and an undergrad…

Come on. What point are you arguing? I know you are most likely anti school shootings. But whats the point of trying to deny it's impact with statistics? Whatever statistics you try to conjure. 52 in one year is way too much. And 1 in 150 kids being on a school with a school shooting is a lot.

[deleted]

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#438

Post by hndamien » Tue, May 23, 2023, 11:12 PM UTC

JoeyJoJoJr wrote: post #419

the_lonely_road wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a political issue not mired in reality but instead in a desire to affect policy. They do it because it works. This discussion is an example of it’d effectiveness. People who will look to the statistics for context in other situations are quick to dismiss them here. There is no rational reason to be anymore concerned about school shootings in America than any other cause of premature death in children and quite a…

A society that tolerates school shootings isn’t going to give any shits about drugs, car accidents, or military recruiters.

It reminds me of the song, "If you tolerate this, then your children will be next." That said, I think prescription drugs are probably more part of the problem than is widely acknowledged.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#439

Post by jlawson » Tue, May 23, 2023, 11:13 PM UTC

escapedmoose wrote: post #431

jlawson wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are getting confused by the number posted which is badly distorting the discussion. 51 is NOT the number of intentional massacres of students or staff. It is the number of shootings on school grounds of all types _including accidents_. Here is a real example from the list: "A student was shot and injured when a sheriff’s deputy’s gun accidentally discharged in a classroom during a law enforcement vocational tr…

Man, I don’t know what to say. 32 student deaths from on-campus shootings in a single year still seems outrageously high to me.

Every year in America 900 kids age 0-19 die from drowning.

3,058 teenagers ages 13-19 die in motor vehicle crashes. [0]

In a country of 332,000,000 people, if 32 deaths stemming from parking lot arguments seems to require a society-wide blanket of fear and dramatic political anger, you are just badly miscalibrated. You're thinking like it's a village, which is natural, but if you want to discuss broad issues at scale, you need to put on your adult-style numerical/comparative thinking hat. "One is too many" sloganeering is simply a path to stupidity at scale. It distracts badly from things that actually matter and we end up way worse off in every respect.

Also worth noting that based on these data it is more or less completely true that a random student doesn't need to worry about school shootings for their own personal safety at all. If you don't choose to get involved in armed parking lot arguments over girls or respect or drugs, you'll be fine. (However, please wear your seatbelt and choose your driver carefully!)

https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/teena...

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#440

Post by mixmastamyk » Tue, May 23, 2023, 11:17 PM UTC

pxoe wrote: post #248

yumraj wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but giving teenagers zero privacy (to the extent of going through their personal messages) seems wild to me. Why? Teenagers are kids too, or have we forgotten that? They are actually worse than kids in some respect, still immature but with changing body and new hormones. It may seem weird to them at this time, but hopefully they’ll appreciate when they grow older - or even if not, at least one did what they could.

teens won't just 'want' privacy, they will get it, one way or another. and if it means excluding other people (like parents) from their communication loops, then so be it. thinking that 'you can let them know that you read their little messages, and that takes care of some things', or 'sure, they may want privacy, but what will they really do?'(literally anything incl. getting a burner phone lol), is just unrealistic…

Not everyone has such a combative relationship with their parents as you apparently had.

It it is possible to be firm on dangers, still be understanding and calm, and let them have face-to-face conversations with privacy... even a beer once in a while or whatever else harmless thing that might excite them in other ways. Pick your battles in other words.