Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns • Hacker News Board

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#411

Post by still_grokking » Tue, May 23, 2023, 9:52 PM UTC

somethingreen wrote: post #275

zackmorris wrote: post #173

D.A.R.E. to Keep Kids Off Social Media Wages stagnated since 1980. Rents doubling every decade. Dead-end service jobs. Unpayable student loans. Social Security payments going to IOUs instead of retirements. Lying politicians and chief corporate officers making bank on the backs of the working poor. 30% credit card interest. Delaying childbirth to make rent until it's too late. GMO and processed foods poisoning giving…

The idea that any of these would normally worry an average young teen is hilarious to me. I grew up during cold war, USSR collapse, multiple wars in the region. At no point was I (or any of my peers to my knowledge) gravely concerned for our future. Because none of us yet had any idea what our normal future is supposed to look like. The only way these mild horrors get into children heads is, again, through social med…

There are no issues, sure. At least as long everybody practices the three apes method…

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#412

Post by carabiner » Tue, May 23, 2023, 9:53 PM UTC

Every time I see this notion pop up (which I 100% agree with), I think back to how YC published a list of potential startup ideas from current YC participants. One of them was a social network for kids. Just terrible and I'm so glad we've come to realize their harms.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#413

Post by nvarsj » Tue, May 23, 2023, 9:56 PM UTC

zamnos wrote: post #403

nvarsj wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know you mean well. But I strongly urge you to reconsider your parenting here. You should not be going through your teenager's text messages... that is absolutely insane. My parents were kind of similar and I had a very negative experience growing up as a result. I still remember my mom throwing out all my NiN CDs I had bought after she read the lyrics. And all my DnD material because Satan was controlling my brain…

how do you teach them what the right choices are if you don't actually see their choices? if your teenager is texting on TikTok with a 40 year old man who's asking them to send them underwear pictures, how do you find out about that except by reading their text messages? we don't know from the singular fact that they're reading through teenagers text messages how heavy handed that monitoring is. Maybe there's a recur…

Every generation of parents seems to have some moral panic. It's a way for those people to feel like they're in control (because losing control is scary and uncomfortable). But, well, news flash, teenagers are all about rebelling against their parents and it's perfectly natural for parents to lose most, if not all, control of their teenagers.

So do you leash your kids and monitor every single one of their actions? Do you really think that is the solution? Parents have tried this for millennia and it never works. Some go completely overboard and shelter their kids, who have mental breakdowns when they enter the real world. I've seen it happen first hand with home-schooled/overly protected friends.

You throw out an extreme anecdote. Remember the war on drugs? It was the same thing. Oh, your kids are gonna do crack at their friends house if you are not careful. Drugs are everywhere and kids are melting their brains. Yes, extreme things can happen to anyone, you can get hit by a car and die, that doesn't mean you ban your kids from crossing a road.

How do you teach them the right choice? Well, this is the art of parenting, and is hard. There are many approaches here. My approach is to treat my teens with respect, have frank conversations with them, and set some clear boundaries and expectations (you must do your schoolwork).

I also try to set myself as a role model for them by living my life to the same morale standards I'd want them to. I don't do drugs, I don't smoke, I don't drink lots, I don't go on random hookups (all things which I see common in men my age). I work hard but also try to remember to have fun and laugh.

It's worked so far. They are confident and happy and will confide in me things they are struggling with. I know they will do things that I wouldn't be happy with and will be unaware of, but that is the risk inherent in life and they will learn from it. All I can do is try to set them up for success best I can, and impart my limited wisdom.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#414

Post by yamtaddle » Tue, May 23, 2023, 10:01 PM UTC

dathinab wrote: post #390

JohnFen wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The best practical solution for something is most times some some in-between solution. I'm very curious as to what you recommend for an in-between solution. It seems to me that either the child has a phone or they don't. How is it possible to effectively restrict their use of the phone short of not allowing them to have it unless a parent is present?

Parental controls of the phone. I.e. the child physical has the phone but the parent virtually owns/controls it. Which sadly are currently often sorely lacking especially for younger children and even for the limited functionality often need too much technical understanding (e.g. knowing that "adult-content filters" tend to not work and at least for young children whitelists are preferable while sadly also often cumb…

Our main trouble is that there are like 30 Web- or streaming-capable devices in our house, not even counting ones that are packed away, and getting the balance between "usable by adults with little friction; locked down for kids" right on all of them is a real pain. Only the Apple-ecosystem stuff is relatively easy to manage, as far as that goes.

Worse, some of them are school devices that we can't manage. And having to physically manage device access is another annoying, never-ending task.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#415

Post by appletrotter » Tue, May 23, 2023, 10:02 PM UTC

zamnos wrote: post #403

nvarsj wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know you mean well. But I strongly urge you to reconsider your parenting here. You should not be going through your teenager's text messages... that is absolutely insane. My parents were kind of similar and I had a very negative experience growing up as a result. I still remember my mom throwing out all my NiN CDs I had bought after she read the lyrics. And all my DnD material because Satan was controlling my brain…

how do you teach them what the right choices are if you don't actually see their choices? if your teenager is texting on TikTok with a 40 year old man who's asking them to send them underwear pictures, how do you find out about that except by reading their text messages? we don't know from the singular fact that they're reading through teenagers text messages how heavy handed that monitoring is. Maybe there's a recur…

> how do you teach them what the right choices are if you don't actually see their choices? if your teenager is texting on TikTok with a 40 year old man who's asking them to send them underwear pictures, how do you find out about that except by reading their text messages?

you establish trust

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#416

Post by atleastoptimal » Tue, May 23, 2023, 10:12 PM UTC

somethingreen wrote: post #275

zackmorris wrote: post #173

D.A.R.E. to Keep Kids Off Social Media Wages stagnated since 1980. Rents doubling every decade. Dead-end service jobs. Unpayable student loans. Social Security payments going to IOUs instead of retirements. Lying politicians and chief corporate officers making bank on the backs of the working poor. 30% credit card interest. Delaying childbirth to make rent until it's too late. GMO and processed foods poisoning giving…

The idea that any of these would normally worry an average young teen is hilarious to me. I grew up during cold war, USSR collapse, multiple wars in the region. At no point was I (or any of my peers to my knowledge) gravely concerned for our future. Because none of us yet had any idea what our normal future is supposed to look like. The only way these mild horrors get into children heads is, again, through social med…

In the past, it was a crisis of the present, with hope for the future.

Now, it's a tranquil present, with no hope for the future.

While the latter is materially better, psychologically it's far more damning.

Every single successful society survived on a story, or myth, of a better future. The current Western world is the only society that has fully abandoned that notion, and we are seeing the consequences. Every single political struggle, artificial conflict and strife is downstream of this fundamental disruption in this core societal promise.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#417

Post by hurtuvac78 » Tue, May 23, 2023, 10:15 PM UTC

It is just a matter of time before we admit that the profound risk is not specific "to youth", but to everybody.

Adults are just as addicted, with pretty much the same consequences.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#418

Post by NoImmatureAdHom » Tue, May 23, 2023, 10:16 PM UTC

kredd wrote: post #380

lumb63 wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I understand. Do you not understand that every child in this country is acutely aware of the existence of school shootings, and for many of them it absolutely is a cause of significant anxiety, because the media has shown them school shootings, and has told them to be anxious about them? Look at death statistics for young people [1]. There are many causes of death which children are not scared of, despite them b…

You’re arguing 0.7% chance of being in a school shooting shouldn’t worry a teenager, for other commentators that’s just a mind-blowing percentage. I think that’s a cultural distinction, since if that was the case, most of people I know would do anything that’s possible to avoid their child to beat that statistic.

That's a cumulative 0.7% chance over 18 (or 22?) years, or 0.035%-ish per year. Not only is that not the right way to think about things even if shootings were random, the numbers aren't correct.

The Edweek numbers are doing what they were designed to do, which is mislead you and parent / grandparent. They are advocacy numbers, deliberately distorted to make things seem as bad as possible in order to drive clicks to further their political agenda. Which is exactly what's happening here!

You could read the edweek links, or the comment by jlawson, or you could do some math yourself. School shootings (in the meaningful sense, not the BS sense that edweek uses--shootings where a student is killed, which is what people really mean) are vanishingly rare in the U.S., a nation of 300,000,000 people. "Preparing" for them is the result of innumeracy, anxiety, fear-mongering, profitability of reporting on them, and lack of critical thinking skills in the U.S. population. The risk is so small that counteracting basically any other risk is a better use of resources. Teach kids about drugs. Teach them about driving safely. Teach them about how to be safe around pools, and how to swim. Teach them to eat healthy. Build them some exercise habits.

An hour invested in any of these activities is much better-spent than an hour of hand-wringing about an almost nonexistent risk of your kid being shot in school in the U.S. It's simple math.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#419

Post by JoeyJoJoJr » Tue, May 23, 2023, 10:17 PM UTC

the_lonely_road wrote: post #396

jiggywiggy wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on. What point are you arguing? I know you are most likely anti school shootings. But whats the point of trying to deny it's impact with statistics? Whatever statistics you try to conjure. 52 in one year is way too much. And 1 in 150 kids being on a school with a school shooting is a lot.

It’s a political issue not mired in reality but instead in a desire to affect policy. They do it because it works. This discussion is an example of it’d effectiveness. People who will look to the statistics for context in other situations are quick to dismiss them here. There is no rational reason to be anymore concerned about school shootings in America than any other cause of premature death in children and quite a…

A society that tolerates school shootings isn’t going to give any shits about drugs, car accidents, or military recruiters.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#420

Post by nullsense » Tue, May 23, 2023, 10:20 PM UTC

lumb63 wrote: post #337

anigbrowl wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in approximately the same period and grim possibilities, along with local economic problems to a lesser extent, were certainly a concern for me and my peers. Other risks existed as well, kids in my neighborhood school died of drug overdoses, accidents, and medical problems. Others had to deal with poverty, abusive parents, or a family member behind bars. Back then middle aged people blamed television your a…

> School shootings are such a regular feature of American life […] Media certainly amplifies the awareness of problems Case in point: in 2022 there were 51 school shootings [1]. Certainly more than I’d like there to be, but in a nation with about 129,000 schools [2], I certainly wouldn’t call them a “regular feature”. If students are in school for 18 years, let’s say, to include pre-K, Kindergarten, and an undergrad…

Or, you know, compare the number of school shootings to literally any other country in the world?

The fact that there are school shootings for the media to report on at all is so crazy to me.