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Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

nytimes.com

371–380 of 548 posts

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#371
post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dang, I guess I am lucky in Wisconsin? My 2-bedroom rent has increased only ~23.33% in 13 years, from 815 to currently 1005.

Where in Wisconsin? I'm a transplant, only been here 3 years or so, and luckily a homeowner now, but anything decent seemed in the 1500-2k range for 2 or 3 bedrooms.

Location matters a huge amount. If you are in Wisconsin and less than an hour from the edge of a big city (Milwaukee; Chicago; St Paul) you will pay a lot more than if you are out in the middle of nowhere.

Also small landlords with good tenants often don’t raise rents as fast as they should compared to the market.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#372

It also can be a 'profound life safer' to youth people which live has been saved by the internet warn. It also helps a lot with democracy as it's much harder for autocratic states (or governments aspiring to become such) to censor and mute the news about their bad deeds. The main problem I'm seeing is not "social media" but how exactly it is implemented, often stuffed full of dark patterns designed to lead to addicti…

I see a lot of this argument when social media is brought up. A lot of people generally agree with the idea that there are a lot more supportive environments available on the web than in a traditional small town with narrow ideals. I would argue though that the statistics do not bear this truth out: if having these communities and support groups are so necessary, then why is suicide and mental health worse now than t…

> worse now than they were prior to the internet?

a lot of overlapping factors

like being able to realize how messed up the world is, or how bad your own situation and future chances are can have a huge negative impact for a child which doesn't really have has much power (or at least it seems so for the child) to change anything until it's too late

at the same time while there are a lot of support structures in the internet and I have meet people which likely wouldn't be alive today without that there are also many bad places and people in the internet

and the way TockTock (and similar but lesser degree YouTube) work can easily lead to a situation where people can intentionally target young people, most times without any consequences or risk for themself

additionally there are factors unrelated to the internet but more related to the fact that "the west" moved from a economical boom time to a sequence of one down turn after another with few good long term outlooks

For example when I grew up with the feelings that I can make mistakes, especially in my youth, and have chances to recover. Even if I had messed up to a point of not geting a school degree the outlook was still one where I could recover from it if I put effort in.

But when I speak with kits today they often say they get the feeling they aren't allowed to do any mistakes, they have no second and third chances, no time to experiment, and hardly any chances to recover. They have the feeling that even if they don't mess up in the internet they might be punished for small mistakes they did in their youth years later.

This puts a _lot_ of pressure on them.

Then their is how poisons the climate change debate is for children, on one hand you have the people which just don't take it serious at all, but even a small child can relatively easily research that that is pretty much nonsense. But on the other side you often have people which go into extremes like "humans will die out", "it's already nearly to late", "if we don't act now we are all domed". Which is also somewhat nonsensical as while climate change will most likely make the quality of live for humans in general way way worse the chance for direct extinction is limited (sadly not non-existing due to hard to estimate chain effect, and many especially cost cities and even some flat countries will most likely not survive if we look at it realistically). That is depressing, but that isn't what makes the debate poisonous. What makes it poisonous is that you get told you can change it by "being a better human and not doing this or that". Except that this is pretty much a lie. For one especially if you are less wealthy you often don't have a realistic choice in many cases. For the other a lot of problem areas for climate pollution are not in the reach of what some normal person can effect through their buying decisions, even if most do so. But telling someone "they" can change it while it pretty obvious doesn't seem to work and looks pretty hopless is _extreamly_ poisonous to the mental state of a person if they believe it and care about the outcome, especially if they are young and inexperienced.

So even more pressure, perceived dark future and hopelessness.

Then us potentially heading into another cold war or WW3 probably isn't helping either.

Sometimes not knowing can be bliss.

But even without access to a phone can a child still grow up in a innocent world today?

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#373
post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Social media and phones have had a huge negative impact on the amount of time young people spend together in person and have amplified the stakes of one's social life Social media and phones are what youth had left, after adults systemically wiped out every inch of their development environment. I'm an early genx; the last generation to grow up free of constant supervision. I went everywhere by myself and learned c…

> That is, my kids risked their parents being charged if they were capably on their own. My kids had nowhere to go if they tried to be independent. Were my kids to risk having some ambition, they also risked adult-sized punishments for kid-sized transgressions. I'm not from the US, so my question is sincere. Is the situation the same across all states? You'd think the states self-describing as "freedom loving" wouldn…

It’s very dependent on the local area. Talking to your neighbors once a year greatly reduces the risks.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#374

I work at a fancy private school and partially am have hosted numerous events for parents on kids and social media. We have been banging on this key for easily the past 8 years, with varying levels of emphasis. The response from parents has also been universally consistent: A lot of nodding, and, ultimately, very little action. There has always been a small but consistent group of parents who stand firmly on their de…

I've worked in tech for 20+ years and I have 4 young kids. We allow our teenager use of a locked down smartphone, with a clearly explained zero expectation of privacy. We don't allow any social media on the phone itself. YouTube and other sites can be used under supervision for agreed on lengths of time. Once or twice a week my wife or I will go through their text messages with them and ask questions about anything t…

I know you mean well. But I strongly urge you to reconsider your parenting here.

You should not be going through your teenager's text messages... that is absolutely insane.

My parents were kind of similar and I had a very negative experience growing up as a result. I still remember my mom throwing out all my NiN CDs I had bought after she read the lyrics. And all my DnD material because Satan was controlling my brain through it.

As a parent you should be teaching your child to be independent and learn how to make the right choices themselves. Micro managing every aspect of their lives is the absolute wrong approach.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about the ones that were allowed to do whatever they wanted? Where are they now?

That'd be me. With adults out of the way, I learned to be self-sufficient and I learned how to navigate complex social situations on my own. In short, I learned how to think. Whatever stuff in my life worked out well - I can trace it all to that. My 5 kids had always-present parenting (because independent growth became effectively illegal+impossible). Being it's such a counterproductive situation, it required strictn…

You're a parent of 5 adult children who all live under the same roof as you? Honestly I don't know whether to congratulate you (my kids all love me so much and all get along) or commiserate (none of my kids are independent).

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked in tech for 20+ years and I have 4 young kids. We allow our teenager use of a locked down smartphone, with a clearly explained zero expectation of privacy. We don't allow any social media on the phone itself. YouTube and other sites can be used under supervision for agreed on lengths of time. Once or twice a week my wife or I will go through their text messages with them and ask questions about anything t…

This is just anecdotal but I remember when I was growing up there were always a few kids in school who had extremely restrictive parents like this (strictly controlled their TV, phone, time with friends, searched their rooms, etc.) On the surface, it seemed like it was effective and they had model kids. But in every case I can remember it resulted in the kids just becoming much better at finding ways to rebel (in inc…

From my experience, the kids who had very restrictive parents were the least well adjusted by the time they had freedom in college, and they really let loose in a much more extreme way than those who had been afforded more freedom & privacy when they were younger.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#377
post #69

I think we are on the tail end of a generation that grew up without internet trying to govern generations that did. The single question that helps me decide whether someone is equipped to address the underlying problem, is asking if they understand the differences between good and bad social media. The difference between good and bad social media is based on the target audience and how potential dark patterns impleme…

> As someone that grew up with social media and the internet from the moment I could read, I struggle to understand how social connections worked before it.

Do you not see how this is a problem?

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#378
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see a lot of this argument when social media is brought up. A lot of people generally agree with the idea that there are a lot more supportive environments available on the web than in a traditional small town with narrow ideals. I would argue though that the statistics do not bear this truth out: if having these communities and support groups are so necessary, then why is suicide and mental health worse now than t…

I'm starting to question that idea too. It seems like, just as often, these supportive environments on the web like to spiral down into an attitude of "ONLY this group supports and likes you; the rest of the world is hostile to you. Literal Nazis lurk outside your door ready to murder you. Better just keep posting online, and be sure to warn any new members about the Nazis outside their doors."

> ONLY this group supports and likes you

as far as I can tell this seems to be a very US thing, through somewhat exported from there through YT/TickTock/etc. (especially to other English speaking countries)

similar to this "over the top social justice" I'm mainly seeing in the US

honestly I have no idea what is going on with the US but it looks really really unhealthy and dangerous not just for the US (not just the points above but also many other points, like religious extremism, or the distribution of fascistic mindsets (but not Nazis) and others)

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#379
post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in approximately the same period and grim possibilities, along with local economic problems to a lesser extent, were certainly a concern for me and my peers. Other risks existed as well, kids in my neighborhood school died of drug overdoses, accidents, and medical problems. Others had to deal with poverty, abusive parents, or a family member behind bars. Back then middle aged people blamed television your a…

> School shootings are such a regular feature of American life […] Media certainly amplifies the awareness of problems Case in point: in 2022 there were 51 school shootings [1]. Certainly more than I’d like there to be, but in a nation with about 129,000 schools [2], I certainly wouldn’t call them a “regular feature”. If students are in school for 18 years, let’s say, to include pre-K, Kindergarten, and an undergrad…

So not quite one in a thousand? I don't feel like you are making the case that this is uncommon.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#380
post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure you mean well, but do you understand that even one school shooting in a year should be unthinkable? Do you not understand that ever child in this country is acutely aware of the existence of school shootings and for many of them it absolutely is a cause of significant anxiety?

Yes, I understand. Do you not understand that every child in this country is acutely aware of the existence of school shootings, and for many of them it absolutely is a cause of significant anxiety, because the media has shown them school shootings, and has told them to be anxious about them? Look at death statistics for young people [1]. There are many causes of death which children are not scared of, despite them b…

You’re arguing 0.7% chance of being in a school shooting shouldn’t worry a teenager, for other commentators that’s just a mind-blowing percentage. I think that’s a cultural distinction, since if that was the case, most of people I know would do anything that’s possible to avoid their child to beat that statistic.
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