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Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop discontinuation

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Re: Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop discontinuation

#91

Post by birdyrooster »

routerl wrote: post #23
spondylosaurus wrote: post #5

The good news is that it looks like this new patch won't affect anyone who always has Luma3DS custom firmware installed, and there are other methods for hacking your 3DS, but they're a lot more convoluted. The bannerbomb3 method was super easy and essentially foolproof. Really shitty of Nintendo to sunset the console and then close the door behind them on the way out. Homebrew communities have been doing their damned…

> Really shitty of Nintendo to sunset the console and then close the door behind them on the way out. The age of abandonware[0] is over. The promise of future earnings from streaming/downloads means all major content producers will lock down even out-of-print works, like consoles from previous generations. This is just another casualty of the fight we were having 20 years ago, re: copyright. We lost. It's over. [0] h…

Except piracy is pretty awesome and works better than the paid alternatives in many cases. It’s just a matter of perspective who is winning and where they are winning.

Re: Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop discontinuation

#92

Post by ihuman »

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #42

Given that the eShop is gone, there's really no reason to take your 3DS out of airplane mode to receive the firmware update in the first place, right?

You don't have to put it in airplane mode. The 3ds can't update automatically; you have to manually go to the software update menu.

Re: Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop discontinuation

#93

Post by OatmealDome »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #75

I know nothing about the context behind this (not even totally sure what 3DS is other than some console that didn’t register on my radar). But it looks really interesting. Is there a summary available of the problem, the solution bannerbomb3 offered, what Nintendo did? What I read this update it didn’t seem more than a security update? I see folks talking about this closing the door behind them after ending the conso…

The Nintendo 3DS was a handheld gaming console released in 2011.

Like many other gaming consoles, you can only run software that is approved by the manufacturer on it. To run your own software ("homebrew"), one has to exploit flaws in the OS and use them to remove these restrictions. One side effect of homebrew is that it often leads to piracy of approved software.

One of the most common step-by-step guides that help users install homebrew uses an exploit called Bannerbomb3 to run the installer. [0] By inserting a malformed DSiWare application onto the SD card, the System Settings app can be crashed in such a way that facilitates arbitrary code execution. The loaded program is then used to install custom firmware.

In March 2023, Nintendo shut down the eShop, the digital software storefront for the Nintendo 3DS, effectively ending most support for the console. After this happened, many people started advocating homebrew-ing 3DSes to allow pirated software to be installed on them, since purchasing software digitally could no longer be done.

Now, 2 months later, Nintendo has decided to issue a firmware update that patches the Bannerbomb3 exploit, preventing new 3DS systems from being homebrewed in this fashion if they are on the latest firmware. (It should be noted that there are many, many more exploits for the 3DS [1], so I'm not sure why they've decided to fix this exact one.)

[0] https://3ds.hacks.guide

[1] https://www.3dbrew.org/wiki/Homebrew_Exploits

Re: Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop discontinuation

#94

Post by bombcar »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #89
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Very expensive "deal with keeping track of which developers relicensed their games" problem. There is tons of licensing issues in the gaming industry under the surface that causes problems all over the place. An extreme example would be Sega's mistakes with Sonic. Sonic 3 , despite not having him in the credits, contains some works by Michael Jackson. That has complicated things tremendously in re-releases, so much…

Have people building games today that use works under license learned this lesson and purchased perpetual licenses, or are they still trying to save money by purchasing narrow licenses that don't work for re-releases or remakes or similar?

Some agencies understand games now and sell appropriately priced perpetual licenses.

Others still treat a game like a moderatly long one time performance.

Re: Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop discontinuation

#95

Post by skeaker »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #75

I know nothing about the context behind this (not even totally sure what 3DS is other than some console that didn’t register on my radar). But it looks really interesting. Is there a summary available of the problem, the solution bannerbomb3 offered, what Nintendo did? What I read this update it didn’t seem more than a security update? I see folks talking about this closing the door behind them after ending the conso…

The 3DS is the Nintendo handheld that followed the DS. It has a very robust homebrew scene due to having a passionate community and not so good security. Homebrew allowed for a ton of new features including surprisingly strong emulation, customizing system menus, running your own code, patching of other games at runtime for modding/translating, etc. Obviously it also opened the door to piracy which makes it something Nintendo is eager to shut down. 3DS hit EoL a while ago (users can no longer make legitimate purchases through Nintendo), yet despite months having gone by since then Nintendo has decided to go back and patch up one of the more convenient methods for enabling homebrew which is something that is considered a dick move since they weren't making money off of it anymore anyways and even if they were it is YOUR SYSTEM and you should be able to do what you want with it. Fortunately there are unpatchable zero-day exploits for the system but they are not as easy as the one that Nintendo patched.

Homebrew on Nintendo consoles has always had a really interesting scene but it really took off with the Wii and everything after it. Hackers would keep finding ways to get into everything and Nintendo would hastily patch it up in a sort of live cat and mouse game. The exploit that Nintendo patched just recently is not hard to do, but older exploits were even easier. One of the earlier 3DS exploits was to simply drop a modified audio file onto your SD card and play it in the 3DS audio player. You would own the whole device in ten seconds flat.

Re: Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop discontinuation

#96

Post by sleepybrett »

routerl wrote: post #23
spondylosaurus wrote: post #5

The good news is that it looks like this new patch won't affect anyone who always has Luma3DS custom firmware installed, and there are other methods for hacking your 3DS, but they're a lot more convoluted. The bannerbomb3 method was super easy and essentially foolproof. Really shitty of Nintendo to sunset the console and then close the door behind them on the way out. Homebrew communities have been doing their damned…

> Really shitty of Nintendo to sunset the console and then close the door behind them on the way out. The age of abandonware[0] is over. The promise of future earnings from streaming/downloads means all major content producers will lock down even out-of-print works, like consoles from previous generations. This is just another casualty of the fight we were having 20 years ago, re: copyright. We lost. It's over. [0] h…

except that the 3ds' unique form factor means that nintendo really can resell 3ds game effectively on the switch unless they perform major hijinks.

Re: Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop discontinuation

#97

Post by routerl »

birdyrooster wrote: post #91
routerl wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Really shitty of Nintendo to sunset the console and then close the door behind them on the way out. The age of abandonware[0] is over. The promise of future earnings from streaming/downloads means all major content producers will lock down even out-of-print works, like consoles from previous generations. This is just another casualty of the fight we were having 20 years ago, re: copyright. We lost. It's over. [0] h…

Except piracy is pretty awesome and works better than the paid alternatives in many cases. It’s just a matter of perspective who is winning and where they are winning.

[flagged]

Re: Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop discontinuation

#98

Post by skrowl »

routerl wrote: post #23
spondylosaurus wrote: post #5

The good news is that it looks like this new patch won't affect anyone who always has Luma3DS custom firmware installed, and there are other methods for hacking your 3DS, but they're a lot more convoluted. The bannerbomb3 method was super easy and essentially foolproof. Really shitty of Nintendo to sunset the console and then close the door behind them on the way out. Homebrew communities have been doing their damned…

> Really shitty of Nintendo to sunset the console and then close the door behind them on the way out. The age of abandonware[0] is over. The promise of future earnings from streaming/downloads means all major content producers will lock down even out-of-print works, like consoles from previous generations. This is just another casualty of the fight we were having 20 years ago, re: copyright. We lost. It's over. [0] h…

[dead]

Re: Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop discontinuation

#99

Post by joecool1029 »

spondylosaurus wrote: post #63
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Very expensive "deal with keeping track of which developers relicensed their games" problem. There is tons of licensing issues in the gaming industry under the surface that causes problems all over the place. An extreme example would be Sega's mistakes with Sonic. Sonic 3 , despite not having him in the credits, contains some works by Michael Jackson. That has complicated things tremendously in re-releases, so much…

Metal Gear Solid 2 & 3 haven't been available on digital marketplaces for a while because both games include real historical footage that Konami no longer has the rights to use. (Off the top of my head, MGS3 used clips of some nuclear weapons tests, for example.)

> MGS3 used clips of some nuclear weapons tests

Wouldn't this be a work of the federal government and in the public domain? Thinking of all the war movies that used old military footage....

Re: Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop discontinuation

#100

Post by itake »

asveikau wrote: post #78
hbn wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so sure it would even pay for itself to continue running at some point. It's not like you can just pay to keep the servers running. It's connected to the internet and surely running on a software stack with dependencies that will have CVEs, or language version lose LTS, libraries dropped for support, etc. and need upkeep. How much money in sales could the Wii Shop channel have been pulling in by the time they…

Firstly, I think you're vastly overestimating these costs. Server resources are pretty cheap. They could probably overlap with online infrastructure of more recent hardware. They probably could also budget a small amount of the dev time to fixing a few bugs with extremely low priority, only the most high severity items prioritized beneath servicing modern stuff. Second, AFAIK they are running those servers right now…

You also have the customer support overhead. People will demand refunds. They will claim the purchase doesn’t work on their broken hardware. There will be fraud where people use the service to test stolen credit card.

There is also the staffing element. Maybe the engineers or product people are interested in resourcing a product with no career growth.

There is a hefty on-going maintenance cost for these stores.

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