Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns • Hacker News Board

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#351

Post by StrangeATractor » Tue, May 23, 2023, 8:34 PM UTC

gsk22 wrote: post #257

StrangeATractor wrote: post #228

A lot of comments in this thread remind of cigarette companies dismissing health concerns with tobacco. In my circle of friends and family I've seen the majority of them go from being people you could talk to and spend time with to people that just stare at their phones constantly, I've heard others say the same about their circles. Parents let Youtube raise their kids because they don't want to get their eyes off th…

It's hard not to notice that this is essentially the same argument people made against TV ("the boob tube"). People just stare at the TV constantly. Parents let the TV raise their kids. People watch TV even on vacation. TV has made kids stupid. And it probably goes back further -- can you believe the parents letting radio raise their kids? Don't get me started on the children who spend all day staring at words in a b…

Smartphones are incomparable with other forms of media. You don't have a TV within 3 feet of you 24 hours a day that you can pull out at any time. A TV doesn't ding to get your attention. TV channels aren't individually tailored for you to suck in your attention and hold it for as long as possible. There are fundamental limitations to TV which do not apply to smartphones. It's the same with radio.

I grew up with TV, the number of people spending almost all their free time on a phone completely dwarfs any TV consumption I've ever seen.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#352

Post by dathinab » Tue, May 23, 2023, 8:37 PM UTC

yamtaddle wrote: post #76

JohnFen wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No more so than it's isolating them by giving them a curfew, telling them they can't hang out in certain places, not giving them a car, etc. That level of "isolation" seems innocuous at worst to me (even though it may seem like the end of the world to the kids).

Every kid through history was horribly isolated before we got smartphones and social media, I guess. They're already spending the best hours of every weekday for like 3/4 of each year with their peers. More, if they do any other activities that involve other kids. Seems like quite a bit. I'm skeptical that they'll be harmed if they can't catch up on the latest bullying-memes, creep shots of other students, and tips f…

Putting aside that this time estimates can vary widely depending on culture, that there was covid, and that a lot of this time isn't spent doing things with their peers but in a classrome which also might happen to contain their peers I thinks it's still a flawed analysis.

Because if you look at the time they can choose what to do, like in brakes between classes or in brakes in the classe (e.g. PE) a bunch of it is spend talking, like talking about the latest trend, the grate experience they had yesterday etc. All of which the child with too strict parent can't proper join in. Then after school they join again, but today often over internet instead of meeting physically, and again the child with the too strict parents is left out.

I'm not sure if you living in a fundamental different world then I am, but it's really hard for me to understand how this is hard for anyone to understand. (If you live in the US I guess this might very well be true.)

This never was a discussion about fully unchecked phone usage. The best practical solution for something is most times some some in-between solution.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#353

Post by verall » Tue, May 23, 2023, 8:39 PM UTC

wonderwonder wrote: post #87

knaik94 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have the ability to help guide them through social media by helping them understand good and bad. I understand that you might have different beliefs, but social media plays a very critical role in young kids communicating with each other. Covid catalyzed them embracing social media to stay in touch. Youtube also shouldn't be considered social media.

I appreciate your viewpoint but strongly disagree. Children today suffer vastly increasing rates of depression and suicide. I link most of it to social media. My kids talk to their friends just as kids have done for generations. If social media is playing any sort of a critical role in a kids life it's because the parents are not doing it. YouTube is absolutely social media no different than Instagram or TikTok. Even…

> Mr. beast who is generally a good guy can warp and expose kids to a suddenly transexual and borderline pedophile character who abandons his wife and child

Can you expand on this? Who are you talking about?

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#354

Post by poulsbohemian » Tue, May 23, 2023, 8:40 PM UTC

somethingreen wrote: post #275

zackmorris wrote: post #173

D.A.R.E. to Keep Kids Off Social Media Wages stagnated since 1980. Rents doubling every decade. Dead-end service jobs. Unpayable student loans. Social Security payments going to IOUs instead of retirements. Lying politicians and chief corporate officers making bank on the backs of the working poor. 30% credit card interest. Delaying childbirth to make rent until it's too late. GMO and processed foods poisoning giving…

The idea that any of these would normally worry an average young teen is hilarious to me. I grew up during cold war, USSR collapse, multiple wars in the region. At no point was I (or any of my peers to my knowledge) gravely concerned for our future. Because none of us yet had any idea what our normal future is supposed to look like. The only way these mild horrors get into children heads is, again, through social med…

I think you are underestimating kids. Does the average child / teen have the same level of detailed understanding of the world as an informed adult? Likely not. But - I can tell you that on the elementary playground during the 2016 election, my kids and their peers were very aware of the threat to the kids whose parents had come (legally or otherwise) from Mexico as it pertained to the two candidates and parties. Heck, when I was that age back in the 80s, there was a group of kids very angry at my dad because he pushed through zoning / permitting regulations that their construction industry parents didn't like. Imagine as a 9 year old having to defend urban growth policy! And that was in a poor, shitty subburb.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#355

Post by jiggywiggy » Tue, May 23, 2023, 8:40 PM UTC

lumb63 wrote: post #337

anigbrowl wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in approximately the same period and grim possibilities, along with local economic problems to a lesser extent, were certainly a concern for me and my peers. Other risks existed as well, kids in my neighborhood school died of drug overdoses, accidents, and medical problems. Others had to deal with poverty, abusive parents, or a family member behind bars. Back then middle aged people blamed television your a…

> School shootings are such a regular feature of American life […] Media certainly amplifies the awareness of problems Case in point: in 2022 there were 51 school shootings [1]. Certainly more than I’d like there to be, but in a nation with about 129,000 schools [2], I certainly wouldn’t call them a “regular feature”. If students are in school for 18 years, let’s say, to include pre-K, Kindergarten, and an undergrad…

Come on. What point are you arguing?

I know you are most likely anti school shootings. But whats the point of trying to deny it's impact with statistics?

Whatever statistics you try to conjure. 52 in one year is way too much. And 1 in 150 kids being on a school with a school shooting is a lot.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#356

Post by kjkjadksj » Tue, May 23, 2023, 8:40 PM UTC

wonderwonder wrote: post #283

syndacks wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question, what does it mean to be a good man? Or at least, what/who are you pointing your son to in this regard? I fear we don’t have many forums or role models for being a good man, which is complicated by, IMO, the chorus coming from the left which seeks to demonize “toxic masculinity”. As an atheist I’m seriously considering if we all need some more Jesus in our lives, or some figure (real or not) who can…

The value of a "good man" must be set by the parents. It can change based on who those parents are. If parents don't define what it means then the kid will figure it out based on other influences. The negative of this is often seen when there is an absent father. In that case unfortunately the mother has to work twice as hard with no support. For me, (athiest as well) I'm slightly right of center or probably right sm…

Fighting is not good to teach. Have your boys litigate instead. One awkward fall in a scuffle and your head could land bad on a curb and then its over for you, wouldn’t even take much of a fight just a misstep. Then who knows how things might look for you in a court of law if you do walk out of that fight. Plus theres no way to be sure the other party doesnt have a knife or a gun.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#357

Post by dathinab » Tue, May 23, 2023, 8:41 PM UTC

mrguyorama wrote: post #139

dathinab wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it is guaranteed at least subtle socially isolating them

If we continue down this road, not letting your kid smoke pot with their peers also counts as "subtle social isolation". Some things your kid should not do!

This is such a misleading red hearing argument.

There is a huge difference between given a child a phone and giving them unchecked phone and internet access.

> Some things your kid should not do!

Yes and socializing after school is definitely NOT on the list of things a child should not do.

Stop thinking in terms of yes or no, the world doesn't work like that.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#358

Post by [deleted] » Tue, May 23, 2023, 8:42 PM UTC

kibwen wrote: post #343

HaZeust wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, barring legitimacy on 2023 doom-and-gloom rhetoric, those who grew up during the Cold War do have this generation beat when it comes to warmongery worries. Problem is, there was not nearly as much domestic disarray back then - and there was still a sense of unity.

> there was not nearly as much domestic disarray back then - and there was still a sense of unity The more one looks, the less this appears to be true. Malcom X and the Black Panthers didn't arise because things were just peachy. MLK's murder wasn't just a stray bullet. When the Philadelphia Police Department dropped a bomb on their own city, it wasn't just an accident. When the National Guard massacred a defenseless…

[deleted]

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#359

Post by poulsbohemian » Tue, May 23, 2023, 8:43 PM UTC

lumb63 wrote: post #337

anigbrowl wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in approximately the same period and grim possibilities, along with local economic problems to a lesser extent, were certainly a concern for me and my peers. Other risks existed as well, kids in my neighborhood school died of drug overdoses, accidents, and medical problems. Others had to deal with poverty, abusive parents, or a family member behind bars. Back then middle aged people blamed television your a…

> School shootings are such a regular feature of American life […] Media certainly amplifies the awareness of problems Case in point: in 2022 there were 51 school shootings [1]. Certainly more than I’d like there to be, but in a nation with about 129,000 schools [2], I certainly wouldn’t call them a “regular feature”. If students are in school for 18 years, let’s say, to include pre-K, Kindergarten, and an undergrad…

I'm sure you mean well, but do you understand that even one school shooting in a year should be unthinkable? Do you not understand that ever child in this country is acutely aware of the existence of school shootings and for many of them it absolutely is a cause of significant anxiety?

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#360

Post by dathinab » Tue, May 23, 2023, 8:45 PM UTC

psyfi wrote: post #126

dathinab wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you are down voted but this is really a really really big issue. This is why "large scale action" e.g. from school or better regulators are needed and why parents only can act very limited. Don't force social isolation on your children just because idk. "this game is bad". Even if they social circle is "good" and doesn't start excluding or harassing them because of this (totally can happen, you can't rea…

Not allowing your children to own a phone ≠ Force social isolation.

social isolation isn't a yes/no question it's a gradient

and in many situation it is pretty much guaranteed to at least cause slight degree of social isolation, in some (like very rual) it might cause a large degree of social isolation

similar having a phone isn't a yes/no question, things like parent control exist, even through they often slightly suck