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Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

nytimes.com

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Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#341

Post by cmh89 »

badpun wrote: post #306
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Social media and phones have had a huge negative impact on the amount of time young people spend together in person and have amplified the stakes of one's social life Social media and phones are what youth had left, after adults systemically wiped out every inch of their development environment. I'm an early genx; the last generation to grow up free of constant supervision. I went everywhere by myself and learned c…

> That is, my kids risked their parents being charged if they were capably on their own. My kids had nowhere to go if they tried to be independent. Were my kids to risk having some ambition, they also risked adult-sized punishments for kid-sized transgressions. I'm not from the US, so my question is sincere. Is the situation the same across all states? You'd think the states self-describing as "freedom loving" wouldn…

Generally conservative states are going to have the government more involved with how kids are raised as a method of social control. I'm in a liberal part of the country and I see kids walking/biking around all the time, while the conservative state I grew up in would almost certainly have the police at least stop them and probably take them home.

The 'parental freedom' stuff is really just the 'you're free to not ensure your children are educated'.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#342

Post by NoImmatureAdHom »

lumb63 wrote: post #337
anigbrowl wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in approximately the same period and grim possibilities, along with local economic problems to a lesser extent, were certainly a concern for me and my peers. Other risks existed as well, kids in my neighborhood school died of drug overdoses, accidents, and medical problems. Others had to deal with poverty, abusive parents, or a family member behind bars. Back then middle aged people blamed television your a…

> School shootings are such a regular feature of American life […] Media certainly amplifies the awareness of problems Case in point: in 2022 there were 51 school shootings [1]. Certainly more than I’d like there to be, but in a nation with about 129,000 schools [2], I certainly wouldn’t call them a “regular feature”. If students are in school for 18 years, let’s say, to include pre-K, Kindergarten, and an undergrad…

I would add that many of the "school shootings" counted in the edweek.org data are not what most people would understand to be school shootings. Things like Person A shoots Person B outside of a school, nobody dies, neither A or B are students, teachers, or otherwise affiliated with the school. Edweek is providing what are known as "advocacy numbers", in that they are stretching the truth as much as they possibly can.

Your kid's chances of being killed in a school shooting are about the same as being struck and killed by lightning (many more people are struck and survive).

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#343

Post by kibwen »

HaZeust wrote: post #311
demindiro wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a hot war right now on the border of the EU that likely will escalate further. I'm sure China has plans too.

I mean, barring legitimacy on 2023 doom-and-gloom rhetoric, those who grew up during the Cold War do have this generation beat when it comes to warmongery worries. Problem is, there was not nearly as much domestic disarray back then - and there was still a sense of unity.

> there was not nearly as much domestic disarray back then - and there was still a sense of unity

The more one looks, the less this appears to be true. Malcom X and the Black Panthers didn't arise because things were just peachy. MLK's murder wasn't just a stray bullet. When the Philadelphia Police Department dropped a bomb on their own city, it wasn't just an accident. When the National Guard massacred a defenseless crowd of students in Ohio, it wasn't because twenty-eight trigger fingers slipped simultaneously. All while McCarthyism ran rampant, dividing Americans into Faithful Patriots and Godless Communists, pitting neighbor against neighbor in a nationalistic furor gleefully fed by the upper echelons of government, media, and industry.

I ain't trying to say things are going well these days, but let's not forget how shitty the past was.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#344

Post by kart23 »

I deleted all social media around the end of 6th grade. This was around the time that instagram was just getting popular, and I had made it at the start of the school year when I got my first smartphone. I remember thinking I was spending too much time on it, and I realized it was stressing me out for absolutely no reason. I decided to get on social media again in my junior year of college, after having essentially no social media from 6th grade til 2nd year of college.

Honestly, I wished I hadn't deleted it. It made me feel like I had missed connecting with my friends, I sometimes look at my friends old posts and feeling a little left out. And there are countless people I could probably still be in at least a little bit of touch with. And I know I'll get people saying that its pointless because I'm not friends with them irl, but I still kinda enjoy seeing what even acquaintances are up to these days on social media. Social media is a part of life now, and forcing your kids off it isn't gonna automatically make them live healthier lives. Let them make their own decision at least, they really are smart enough.

So much of life happens online these days: college, the workplace, dating, etc. Kids need to learn how to communicate over the internet because they're going to be doing it for the rest of their lives, and social media really does help with that.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#345

Post by norir »

dundercoder wrote: post #132
ChicagoBoy11 wrote: post #3

I work at a fancy private school and partially am have hosted numerous events for parents on kids and social media. We have been banging on this key for easily the past 8 years, with varying levels of emphasis. The response from parents has also been universally consistent: A lot of nodding, and, ultimately, very little action. There has always been a small but consistent group of parents who stand firmly on their de…

I've worked in tech for 20+ years and I have 4 young kids. We allow our teenager use of a locked down smartphone, with a clearly explained zero expectation of privacy. We don't allow any social media on the phone itself. YouTube and other sites can be used under supervision for agreed on lengths of time. Once or twice a week my wife or I will go through their text messages with them and ask questions about anything t…

I feel pretty strongly based on my own (distant past) experiences as a young person that children need spaces where they have privacy from their parents. I think of the child who for whatever reason doesn't entirely feel like they fit in with their family and the internet is an outlet where they can explore the side of themselves that they don't feel comfortable sharing. When you strip someone's privacy and autonomy, you inhibit their ability to authentically be themselves. Now of course there is a balance and any parent does have the right to set boundaries, but I think it's important to consider the cost. My mother set some arbitrary boundaries not entirely unlike the ones you've described, but in a different era. While I respect that she was well intentioned, she caused more harm and resentment and, as others have pointed out, probably pushed me towards worse behavior out of her watchful eyes. In other words, she couldn't actually shelter me but she was able to engender resentment and acting out in response to her well-intentioned desire to protect me that ultimately hurt our relationship. I'm not at all saying that that dynamic exists in your family and I'm sure there is lots of nuance that a HN comment can't express, but I have concerns with people blindly applying these types of rules and boundaries on their children.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#346

Post by dathinab »

JohnFen wrote: post #91
dathinab wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you are either older, lucky or never introspected. I assume lucky for a moment. The problem is less that conversations are more delayed or ad-hoc but more that they can potentially miss out on "group events". And that is where the problem starts. Because they also can't join in on conversations about that event, etc. This means while the rest of the group will frequently have situations where they emotionally bo…

> Then you are either older, lucky or never introspected. That sounds a lot like when kids say "you just don't understand!" to parents restricting their activities. The reality is that the parents usually understand fully, but also understand other aspects that the kids don't yet. > that they can potentially miss out on "group events". I doubt this is a common or inevitable consequence. First, kids spend a great deal…

> parents usually understand fully

> I doubt this is a common or inevitable consequence.

I think if you speak with a psychotherapeut which keeps up with the current state of research/sience the answer would be: no many parent have no idea what they are doing, and it is VERY common. It's common enough that some people claim abusing this dynamic is the main source of income for Fortnight ...

> If that's important to a particular child, give them a camera. They do still exist.

this fully misses the point, it's not about making photos, it's about sharing them and slightly about funny filters etc. and do you think a parent who doesn't allow their child to have a phone would allow them to chair photos without a lot of friction?

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#347

Post by grugagag »

kart23 wrote: post #344

I deleted all social media around the end of 6th grade. This was around the time that instagram was just getting popular, and I had made it at the start of the school year when I got my first smartphone. I remember thinking I was spending too much time on it, and I realized it was stressing me out for absolutely no reason. I decided to get on social media again in my junior year of college, after having essentially n…

> Honestly, I wished I hadn't deleted it. It made me feel like I had missed connecting with my friends, I sometimes look at my friends old posts and feeling a little left out.

You’d still feel left out even if you were on social media too, and you’d have that feeling 10 fold. The only reason for that feeling is social media pressure and not actually connecting to people IRL. If you did connect to people IRL you did the right thing and what you’re experiencing is just a surface level illusion.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#348

Post by grvdrm »

wonderwonder wrote: post #331
grvdrm wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment is fascinating. Putting aside whether I agree or disagree, did you ever consider sitting down with your kids to teach/coach/guide them through what social media is, the content on it, what's valuable or not? And if you decided not to, what criteria did you use to make the decision? Did you waver in that decision, or do you take time to reevaluate it on a regular basis? Or is it instead that you categoric…

I used to be on social media a lot. Everything I saw made me believe it is rotten to the core, especially for young kids just figuring out who they are. I'm hard pressed to think of a single positive thing a child could gain from being on social media. Social media is set up for predation at it's core, everyone is playing the likes and followers game. No one likes your post or people attack you and now it's a vector…

Got it.

I think you're right about the objective quality of most of what's there. It's garbage. I have two girls under age of 5 but this topic will inevitably bubble up to the surface up to the age of 5. We actually pulled YouTube out of rotation for my older one because, much like you fear, one video slightly off the path played more than a couple times directed the algorithm down a black hole of nonsensical kids videos.

I'm telling myself - with time to go - that at I need to know what's going on in social media to help them understand what their friends might be allowed to do or not when we get to that point. And I'll monitor phones/iPads. Not yet sure about full bans on all of social media but we'll see where things are in that moment and evaluate.

Let me flip side this around: do your kids come to you about apps/social media/etc. with curiosities? Surely they hear about things. How do you redirect?

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#349

Post by kjkjadksj »

oefrha wrote: post #271
StrangeATractor wrote: post #228

A lot of comments in this thread remind of cigarette companies dismissing health concerns with tobacco. In my circle of friends and family I've seen the majority of them go from being people you could talk to and spend time with to people that just stare at their phones constantly, I've heard others say the same about their circles. Parents let Youtube raise their kids because they don't want to get their eyes off th…

While I don’t like staring at my phone constantly while I’m around others, have you considered the possibility that people simply enjoy whatever are on their phones more than talking to and spending time with you? A lot of people just want to be left alone, when you think you’re “having an interesting conversation” or “having a good time” or whatnot with them, it’s entirely possible they’re only doing it out of polit…

Why make an effort then to spend time with someone if you will just waste that on your phone? It’s kinda rude to others time.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#350

Post by tantalor »

anigbrowl wrote: post #301
somethingreen wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that any of these would normally worry an average young teen is hilarious to me. I grew up during cold war, USSR collapse, multiple wars in the region. At no point was I (or any of my peers to my knowledge) gravely concerned for our future. Because none of us yet had any idea what our normal future is supposed to look like. The only way these mild horrors get into children heads is, again, through social med…

I grew up in approximately the same period and grim possibilities, along with local economic problems to a lesser extent, were certainly a concern for me and my peers. Other risks existed as well, kids in my neighborhood school died of drug overdoses, accidents, and medical problems. Others had to deal with poverty, abusive parents, or a family member behind bars. Back then middle aged people blamed television your a…

> School shootings are such a regular feature of American life...

No they're not.

> ...that every school holds safety drills for the risk.

They also hold drills for tornado, fire, etc. These aren't regular parts of life either; they are emergencies for which people can prepare for the extremely rare chance it actually happens.

We could debate the utility or practical implementation of active shooter drills compared to fire drills, but just waving your hands saying they are injecting horrors into children's heads is overblown. Most kids just find them a waste of time. Just like fire drills.

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