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"White hat" Facebook hacker gets 8 months in jail

bbc.co.uk

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Re: "White hat" Facebook hacker gets 8 months in jail

#31

Post by dkl »

smsm42 wrote: post #18
JonnieCache wrote: post #13

"You accessed the very heart of the system of an international business of massive size, so this was not just fiddling about in the business records of some tiny business of no great importance," he said. This is the kind of thing that makes my blood boil.

While it is indeed despicable to imagine that there's a different law for big and small companies, it is long known that the size of actual and potential harm is considered when crime and punishment is being discussed. One would probably get different punishment for stealing $10 and stealing $100K (though if you manage to steal $100M you may actually get away with it, but that's another story). If his lawyer would ar…

You do realize there are people in jail in California for life for stealing very small amounts, due to the "3 strikes law", where as the people responsible for sucking billions out of the US economy... well, none of them have gone to jail. (I did read about someone that did go to jail, but he was a low-level actor... it was clear it was a sacrificial lamb).

Re: "White hat" Facebook hacker gets 8 months in jail

#33

Post by skolor »

nik_0_0 wrote: post #7
koenigdavidmj wrote: post #3

https://www.facebook.com/whitehat Facebook themselves have a policy of tolerance toward white hat hackery (basically `give us a reasonable amount of time before releasing to the public' and `do what you can to protect other users' privacy). I want to hear their side of this.

I found myself wondering if perhaps the 'white-hat' reference is a blunder in the headline. This article woefully lacks any actual details regarding what he did or how he approached communication with Facebook, only stating that he was a white-hat hacker for Yahoo once (which obviously proves nothing).

I searched around a little bit, since I found the lack of details somewhat disturbing. This is the best I found: http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Facebook-hack-lands-UK.... From the sounds of it, he broke into an employees account (likely their work computer, possibly further access). I'm speculating, but that makes it sound like he stole some portion of the Facebook source code, coupling that with the "intellectual property" claims.

I'm curious about this line, towards the bottom:

   his intention throughout was to contact Facebook in due course when he had rectified their problems

Re: "White hat" Facebook hacker gets 8 months in jail

#34

Post by joshu »

joering2 wrote: post #30
JonnieCache wrote: post #13

"You accessed the very heart of the system of an international business of massive size, so this was not just fiddling about in the business records of some tiny business of no great importance," he said. This is the kind of thing that makes my blood boil.

I can spare my karma and you can downvote me now for saying this (but my blood is boiling too), but I can bet you my left arm (I'm left-handed) that if that "international business" called Facebook would go down for longer than 25 minutes, you would see world's work-power suddenly increased by 40%.

40% seems like a conservative estimate

Re: "White hat" Facebook hacker gets 8 months in jail

#35

Post by chc »

Locke1689 wrote: post #15
Zarathust wrote: post #11

Usually "white hat" have some kind of responsible disclosure. It seems that this "white hat" did not disclose anything to facebook, then got caught and only then, pretended to be acting for everyone's good. Admitting everything in police custody is NOT responsible disclosure

Moreover, he actually accessed files. White hat hacking includes finding vulnerabilities, not using them to actually steal data. This sounds like someone who was accessing Facebook for profit and made up an excuse when he got caught.

Sounds to me like someone who accessed Facebook for kicks and made up an excuse when he got caught. There's no more evidence that he profited than there is that he was being helpful.

I knew a kid back in the '90s who got hauled off a couple of times by the FBI for hacking. He wasn't looking for profit — he just thought it was fun to break into systems.

Re: "White hat" Facebook hacker gets 8 months in jail

#36

Post by daeken »

joshmattvander wrote: post #16

Seems ridiculous for a company who has the word "HACK" all over the inside and outside of their office, to put energy into this. Hire the kid and move on.

As far as I know, once you turn something like this over to the FBI or other authorities, it's out of your control. You've already lit the fuse -- where the rocket goes from there isn't your choice.

Re: "White hat" Facebook hacker gets 8 months in jail

#37

Post by smsm42 »

dkl wrote: post #31
smsm42 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it is indeed despicable to imagine that there's a different law for big and small companies, it is long known that the size of actual and potential harm is considered when crime and punishment is being discussed. One would probably get different punishment for stealing $10 and stealing $100K (though if you manage to steal $100M you may actually get away with it, but that's another story). If his lawyer would ar…

You do realize there are people in jail in California for life for stealing very small amounts, due to the "3 strikes law", where as the people responsible for sucking billions out of the US economy... well, none of them have gone to jail. (I did read about someone that did go to jail, but he was a low-level actor... it was clear it was a sacrificial lamb).

I know and do realize. I know there are people in jail in California for not stealing anything at all but enjoying in their privacy some activities that the government does not condone and considers bad for them, so it puts them in jail, which is obviously much better for them. I realize all the sad state of it. I'm just noting one small point that the size of the harm does matter and always had and will matter in the court, whatever we may be thinking about it.

Re: "White hat" Facebook hacker gets 8 months in jail

#38

Post by DougBTX »

wyclif wrote: post #26
bryanh wrote: post #22

> "He added that when Mangham was arrested he made "copious" admissions to police about what he had done." Given the chance, I always bang the "don't talk to authorities" drum. So now you have to wonder, how did his "copious admissions" help him? Seriously, if you are suspected of anything , no matter how innocuous or momentous: Shut. The. Hell. Up. Get a damned attorney. Of course the classic video needs to be linke…

Upvoted. Never, ever, talk to the cops.

Worth noting that this is in the UK, where there isn't an absolute right to remain silent. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_silence_in_England_and...

Re: "White hat" Facebook hacker gets 8 months in jail

#39

Post by newhouseb »

JonnieCache wrote: post #13

"You accessed the very heart of the system of an international business of massive size, so this was not just fiddling about in the business records of some tiny business of no great importance," he said. This is the kind of thing that makes my blood boil.

While "importance" is a pretty subjective (read: bullshit) metric in legal terms, using the dollar value of theft to threshold criminal charges is used around the world. In the U.S. you can press charges for any amount, but depending on the state they have different thresholds between misdemeanor and a felony (grand theft) usually around $500-$1000. Interestingly enough, in some places such as China (where I originally learned about the theft lines / thresholds in a class at Peking University), there is a minimum value that must be stolen before one can prosecute, which is on the order of US$100. This obviously saves the court from wasting too much time on judicial abuse, but clearly discriminates against people in among the lowest rungs of the economic ladder. On the other hand it sets the priority for handling larger cases that impact more people (such as official corruption scandals which admittedly China does a more prudent job of enforcing responsibility in white collar crime than the States).

Of course the argument could be made that criminal prosecution is largely a function of who you know rather than the spare resources of the judicial system, which is probably correct, but it is still food for though.

(Sources: http://www.california-criminal-lawyer-blog.com/2010/11/grand... and http://www.chinareview.info/issue2/pages/case.htm and some classes I took, but IANAL)

Re: "White hat" Facebook hacker gets 8 months in jail

#40

Post by gvsyn »

paulhauggis wrote: post #14

I think this guy is grey hat at best.

This. As soon as data is fetched from the system (that is beyond what's required for the hack), you're headed square into darker territory. To be white hat, you find the vuln, alert the company to it, and that's that. There is no "no, really, here's a load of data I grabbed using it!". White hat is generally hired gun to hack for the good of the site/company, grey not hired, but hacks; black is for the lulz/profit.
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