Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop discontinuation • Hacker News Board

Re: Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop discontinuation

#51

Post by jeroenhd » Tue, May 23, 2023, 6:18 PM UTC

asveikau wrote: post #35

routerl wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Really shitty of Nintendo to sunset the console and then close the door behind them on the way out. The age of abandonware[0] is over. The promise of future earnings from streaming/downloads means all major content producers will lock down even out-of-print works, like consoles from previous generations. This is just another casualty of the fight we were having 20 years ago, re: copyright. We lost. It's over. [0] h…

I feel like it probably costs them very little to keep every title listed for sale. They could be making revenue from it. Probably not as much as when the stuff was new, but something. I guess by cutting off supply of the old stuff, though, they can do re-releases and re-masters charging somewhat similar to the price of a new game, or get people to pay a monthly subscription fee for access.

Keeping stuff for sale can be expensive because of licensed assets. Licensed music has taken games down before and it will again. I don't know the publisher contracts Nintendo signs, but if there's a time duration in the contract, that may open up a very expensive "deal with keeping track of which developers relicensed their games" problem.

That said, I 100% believe this is just a way for them to make sure you can't mod second hand 3DS consoles in five years time when they bring 3DS re-releases to the Switch.

Re: Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop discontinuation

#52

Post by JansjoFromIkea » Tue, May 23, 2023, 6:20 PM UTC

kevingadd wrote: post #3

[flagged]

Results in the used market become blurry as to whether a 3DS will be hackable or not, which is probably enough of a barrier to block off anyone who'd consider getting one for homebrew that doesn't 100% know what they're at. Basically an effort to lock 3DS games into a vault until they can find a use for them.

It happening so late into the 3DS life with basically anyone who wanted a hacked 3DS already having one it potentially reduces the amount of manpower that will go into finding an exploit too. I'd say they intentionally waited until after the eshop was closed to release this.

Re: Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop discontinuation

#53

Post by jeroenhd » Tue, May 23, 2023, 6:21 PM UTC

zamadatix wrote: post #46

radicaldreamer wrote: post #12

This is likely due to contract issues - there are many contracts, especially for digital distribution, which have an SLA built in for patching security issues for DRM content. These are basically provisions which allow the contract holder to claw back fees etc. if DRM is broken on a platform for a certain amount of time. Apple has these with music publishers, especially when the iTunes Store first launched.

Why would anyone agree to an distribution SLA which extends past the distribution lifetime? It also seems odd for such a contract to not matter for nearly 4 years while distribution was active. That's kind of lag would seem to defeat the purpose.

It's hard to say how long "distribution lifetimes" are. If the 3DS flopped like the Wii U, it'd be foolish to sign a 5 year contract. Instead it became a success that went on to stay popular for ten years.

Nintendo also isn't giving you a detailed timeline of their upcoming consoles if you're trying to sell games through their console. For all you know, the Switch 2 is right around the corner and signing a distributor contract now will launch your game onto a dead platform.

Vagueness can be good in these cases.

Re: Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop discontinuation

#54

Post by gjsman-1000 » Tue, May 23, 2023, 6:22 PM UTC

jeroenhd wrote: post #51

asveikau wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like it probably costs them very little to keep every title listed for sale. They could be making revenue from it. Probably not as much as when the stuff was new, but something. I guess by cutting off supply of the old stuff, though, they can do re-releases and re-masters charging somewhat similar to the price of a new game, or get people to pay a monthly subscription fee for access.

Keeping stuff for sale can be expensive because of licensed assets. Licensed music has taken games down before and it will again. I don't know the publisher contracts Nintendo signs, but if there's a time duration in the contract, that may open up a very expensive "deal with keeping track of which developers relicensed their games" problem. That said, I 100% believe this is just a way for them to make sure you can't…

> Very expensive "deal with keeping track of which developers relicensed their games" problem.

There is tons of licensing issues in the gaming industry under the surface that causes problems all over the place. An extreme example would be Sega's mistakes with Sonic.

Sonic 3, despite not having him in the credits, contains some works by Michael Jackson. That has complicated things tremendously in re-releases, so much so, that Sega has re-released that game far less than Sonic 1, 2, and CD. Sonic Origins, the latest re-release, contains redone music from prototypes rather than solve the licensing quagmire.

But that's not the only licensing quagmire. Guess why the Sonic movies don't have almost any soundtracks or sound effects from the game? According to the Directors, it wasn't a thematic choice, but a legal one. Sonic CD's re-release on smartphones had a similar issue with the opening scene having the vocals removed, because they were from an obscure band that went through a series of legal changes, acquisitions, member changes... This is actually a big problem with re-releases in general. Hunting down who actually owns the rights to a series can be a mess when acquisitions are involved; and you'd better hope the new owners at the end of the road are reasonable and not eager for a quick buck.

And to top it all off, just look up the Kenneth W. Penders story, which single-handedly took advantage of Sega's lax copyright protectionism to "steal" almost 200 characters right from under Sega's feet. Nintendo is no doubt looking at that, and the Sonic music issues, and thinking... man, this is why we protect.

Re: Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop discontinuation

#55

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF » Tue, May 23, 2023, 6:22 PM UTC

awestroke wrote: post #40

gavaw wrote: post #32

They didn't update the firmware "to block Bannerbomb3", they fixed a bug in the Settings app.

Source?

"Bannerbomb3" is referring to an exploit in their system settings which allowed for custom firmware to be installed on the device. So fixing the bug which allowed the exploit is what is considered to have "blocked Bannerbomb3".

Personally, I think it's rather likely that Nintendo did this specifically to prevent their customers from installing custom firmware on devices they purchased, rather than because Nintendo wanted to fix a bug for any sort of perfectionist or altruistic ("user security") reasons. It can just be dressed up as a security issue, so that's what they do if they feel the need to justify it at all.

Re: Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop discontinuation

#56

Post by ChuckNorris89 » Tue, May 23, 2023, 6:23 PM UTC

routerl wrote: post #23

spondylosaurus wrote: post #5

The good news is that it looks like this new patch won't affect anyone who always has Luma3DS custom firmware installed, and there are other methods for hacking your 3DS, but they're a lot more convoluted. The bannerbomb3 method was super easy and essentially foolproof. Really shitty of Nintendo to sunset the console and then close the door behind them on the way out. Homebrew communities have been doing their damned…

> Really shitty of Nintendo to sunset the console and then close the door behind them on the way out. The age of abandonware[0] is over. The promise of future earnings from streaming/downloads means all major content producers will lock down even out-of-print works, like consoles from previous generations. This is just another casualty of the fight we were having 20 years ago, re: copyright. We lost. It's over. [0] h…

>The age of abandonware[0] is over.

Yarrr matey, no it aint. It has only begone.

Gonna take the eye patch and peg leg out of the mothballs and start putting them to good use.

Re: Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop discontinuation

#57

Post by JansjoFromIkea » Tue, May 23, 2023, 6:23 PM UTC

wilsonnb3 wrote: post #13

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #9

I interpret this as DS and 2DS games coming to Nintendo Switch Online at some point. Not terribly hard - just have the screens side-by-side, or rotate the Switch 90° for people who want the old experience. It could even be like how Nintendo is doing the Game Boy last year, with basic Game Boy on the standard plan and GBA with the Expansion pack. Basic DS games would be on the general Online plan, and newer 2DS/3DS ga…

Could just be remakes. For example, a switch port of Link Between Worlds is more valuable if you can’t easily buy a used 3DS and pirate it. But it is probably just Nintendo being protective of their IP and means nothing.

Definitely, between DS/3DS games feeling weird emulated on anything else and Nintendo having access to the source code, reducing access to the originals greatly boosts the value of single screen remasters.

Could see the final year or two of the Switch having a bunch of them tbh, similar to some of the bizarre late period 3DS ports (e.g. Bowser's Inside Story)

Re: Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop discontinuation

#58

Post by mmebane » Tue, May 23, 2023, 6:24 PM UTC

spondylosaurus wrote: post #5

The good news is that it looks like this new patch won't affect anyone who always has Luma3DS custom firmware installed, and there are other methods for hacking your 3DS, but they're a lot more convoluted. The bannerbomb3 method was super easy and essentially foolproof. Really shitty of Nintendo to sunset the console and then close the door behind them on the way out. Homebrew communities have been doing their damned…

If you don't mind spending around $10 USD, hacking an updated 3DS is simple if you get an ntrboot-compatible flashcart [1] and a small magnet. At the moment, Ace3DS X flashcarts are available on AliExpress and work well.

If the supply of compatible flashcarts ever dries up, it will definitely get harder, though hopefully there will be more software exploits discovered by then.

[1]: https://3ds.hacks.guide/ntrboot

Re: Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop discontinuation

#59

Post by haunter » Tue, May 23, 2023, 6:24 PM UTC

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #42

Given that the eShop is gone, there's really no reason to take your 3DS out of airplane mode to receive the firmware update in the first place, right?

You can still play online multiplayer games. Smash Bros, Mario Kart 7, Monster Hunter Stories PvP etc. The whole Pokemon Bank also works. They only removed the option in eShop to purchase new games, you can still also download everything you bought before.

Re: Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop discontinuation

#60

Post by spondylosaurus » Tue, May 23, 2023, 6:27 PM UTC

mmebane wrote: post #58

spondylosaurus wrote: post #5

The good news is that it looks like this new patch won't affect anyone who always has Luma3DS custom firmware installed, and there are other methods for hacking your 3DS, but they're a lot more convoluted. The bannerbomb3 method was super easy and essentially foolproof. Really shitty of Nintendo to sunset the console and then close the door behind them on the way out. Homebrew communities have been doing their damned…

If you don't mind spending around $10 USD, hacking an updated 3DS is simple if you get an ntrboot-compatible flashcart [1] and a small magnet. At the moment, Ace3DS X flashcarts are available on AliExpress and work well. If the supply of compatible flashcarts ever dries up, it will definitely get harder, though hopefully there will be more software exploits discovered by then. [1]: https://3ds.hacks.guide/ntrboot

Wow, you weren't kidding about the magnet:

> The usage of this exploit, regardless of the flashing method, requires access to a small magnet if the target device is of a folding style (any 3DS family system that is not the old 2DS with a sleep switch). This is because the exploit requires your device to enter sleep mode while still having access to the buttons.